HC Deb 23 May 1966 vol 729 cc44-6
Mr. Speaker

The House will remember that a question of privilege was raised on Friday morning by the hon. Member for Nottingham, West (Mr. English).

I will not repeat now the circumstances to which he drew my attention, as hon. Members will have seen these in HANSARD. I have, however, inquired into these circumstances so far as I have been able to do so. As I indicated to the House on Friday, however, I could not make full inquiries without endangering the rule of the House that there must be no intervention in the affairs of a Select Committee unless that Committee itself asks the House in a formal report to do so. This rule binds Mr. Speaker as well as all other Members.

The House will appreciate that my function in ruling on a claim of breach of privilege is limited to deciding the formal question, whether the case conforms to the conditions which alone entitle it to take precedence over Orders of the Day. My duty does not extend to deciding the question of substance whether a breach of privilege has, in fact, been committed. That is a question which can be decided only by the House itself. I have, however, considered the facts put forward by the hon. Member with great care. My conclusion must be that the matter is not so clearly a contempt of the House as to justify me in finding that it constitutes prima facie a breach of privilege.

Mr. Thorpe

On a point of order. Without asking you in any way to disclose any evidence or any inquiries which you may have received or sought, Mr. Speaker, if I heard your Ruling aright, you said that you would be unable to rule on this matter unless and until the Committee had disclosed the relevant information and thereby made it public. May I respectfully ask you whether, in coming to that decision—which, of course, we all accept—you had been fully furnished with all the requisite information by that Committee?

Mr. Speaker

I think that the simple answer to the hon. Member is that he has not understood the Ruling which I made. I did not rule that I could not decide whether this was a question of privilege until I had information from the Committee. I ruled that on the information which I have it is in my opinion not prima facie a case of privilege. Whether it is a breach of privilege or not is always a matter for the House. All that Mr. Speaker has to rule is, on the information which is supplied to him, whether it is prima facie a case which would involve lifting it over the ordinary business of the House and giving it immediate precedence.

Mr. Thorpe

Further to that point of order. If I heard the hon. Member for Nottingham, West (Mr. English) aright, or read the record aright, he did not feel able publicly to make full disclosure of the facts because the facts of that Committee had not been publicly disclosed by that Committee. If I am right in that, he was not therefore in a position to furnish you with all the relevant information as he would have wished to do.

Mr. Speaker

Order. We cannot now discuss the issue which the hon. Member seeks to raise. If he reads the question of privilege as raised by the hon. Member for Nottingham, West he will see that it has nothing to do with what has happened in the Committee. That is a matter that we cannot discuss until the Committee has reported to the House.

Mr. English

When you made your Ruling, Sir, which, of course, I entirely accept, was it drawn to your attention that the facts which we may not disclose, under your statement of Friday, were published on every notice board in the House, including public places? Was the fact also drawn to your attention that on B.B.C. television on Friday the statement was made in public that the commentator could give the whole of the facts were it not a breach of privilege?

Could you, Sir, for general elucidation, inform us whether the effect of your Ruling would now be to enable people to publish the facts without putting themselves in contempt of the House?

Mr. Speaker

The hon. Gentleman must not seek now, having had a Ruling on a question of privilege, to bring other hypothetical cases before me. The simple answer to him is that if he turns up the precedents he will find that it is and has always been a breach of privilege to publish events that took place in or the transactions of a Select Committee before they have been brought before the House. This is just the classic example.