§ Q6. Mr. Martenasked the Prime Minister whether, in view of the recent discussions with the Australian Government, it is still Her Majesty's Government's policy to maintain a worldwide defence rôle.
§ The Prime MinisterYes, Sir.
§ Mr. MartenIs the Prime Minister aware that many people are extremely anxious that the pressures from his own back benchers may lead to a premature withdrawal from South-East Asia? Can he give an assurance that even when confrontation ends—and we all hope that it does—there will not be a massive withdrawal until the situation in the area is really stable?
§ The Prime MinisterI know that the hon. Gentleman, who used to be a very assiduous Minister, has been spending most of his time these days being preoccupied with my hon. Friends' activities. [Interruption.] I was asked two questions and I have just answered the first. As for the second, I have already made it plain this afternoon that we shall not begin reduction of the troops in Borneo or anywhere else from where they might be drawn until we are obsolutely satisfied that the confrontation danger is over. We shall do it when it is safe to do so and we shall do it on an adequate scale.
§ Rear-Admiral Morgan GilesIs the right hon. Gentleman aware that the Australian Government's statement on defence emphasises that the States of South-East Asia must have the external support of major allies in order that they may have time to strengthen their political institutions and to have some hope in the future? Does the right hon. Gentleman agree with that policy and will he continue to support it?
§ The Prime MinisterI am well aware of the statement of the Australian Government. As I have said, these matters will be further discussed in Canberra this week. We have said that we are maintaining a rôle there, but we cannot maintain a rôle on a scale which would be crippling to our economy. That is why we are scaling down wherever we can the extent and the number of troops in areas where they can be scaled down.
§ Mr. William PriceWould not my right hon. Friend agree that if hon. Members opposite had the honesty and the courage to take the opportunity of a democratic vote, they would get far more curious results than that about which the hon. Member for Banbury (Mr. Marten) is complaining?
§ The Prime MinisterI did not think that he was complaining about democratic votes, but it is not for me to comment on the points raised, except to say that the attitude of the hon. and right hon. Gentlemen opposite, judged from their speeches in the defence debate, would mean adding a much more crippling burden to what is involved in our own defence policy, and particularly would this be the case if we were to take their advice about the Middle East as well as about South-East Asia.
§ Sir J. EdenEven though the changing political situation may well lead to a reduction in forces, would the right hon. Gentleman assure the House that this will be done as a gradual operation and would he clearly give a firm statement about the future of the Brigade of Gurkhas in this part of the world?
§ The Prime MinisterOf course, in parts of the area concerned it will have to be a gradual process, but since we had an emergency, it was an abnormal build-up of troops in Borneo because of confrontation and we would certainly expect that the reduction there, once that emergency was over, could be something other than gradual and could be much speedier and, as I have said, should be massive. As for the Brigade of Gurkhas and other aspects of the reduction, this is a matter on which in due course my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Defence will want to make a statement to the House, but we have not got to that stage yet.
§ Mr. GrimondWould not the Prime Minister agree that, whatever words are used, it is impossible for a country so heavily in debt as we are to play an effective worldwide rôle and that it is the attempt to keep up this will-o'-the-wisp worldwide rôle which adds so much to our economic difficulties? Would it not be much better to give priority to the economic situation and to put that right and then look once again at our position in the world?
§ The Prime MinisterI think that the part which we have played in ending confrontation shows that our rôle can be effective and in this case has been effective. I must say that I am very surprised that the right hon. Gentleman, whom I thought to be as keen a supporter of United Nations peacekeeping and the Commonwealth rôle as I am, should believe that we can do all that this country uniquely can do in relation to the Commonwealth on the basis of a withdrawal to Europe.