HC Deb 22 June 1966 vol 730 cc558-62
15. Mr. Kershaw

asked the Secretary of State for Defence what steps he is taking to bring the British Army of the Rhine up to the strength undertaken by treaty.

Mr. Healey

Our general intentions regarding B.A.O.R. were set out in this year's Defence Review White Paper. The strength of B.A.O.R. at any one time depends on such factors as our other overseas commitments and the progress of recruitment for the Regular Army.

Mr. Kershaw

But how will the Secretary of State bring up these figures to the treaty strength in view of present recruiting levels and the fact that he proposes to cut the Regular Army by 16,000 men?

Mr. Healey

The hon. Gentleman will be aware that there are plans for redeploying the forces following the end of confrontation, which we now hope is in sight.

Mr. Michael Foot

Is it not the case that the British Army of the Rhine has never been up to strength since the Treaty was agreed, which is a further illustration of the absurdity of this commitment, which was made by a previous Government? Will my right hon. Friend make sure that we do not enlarge the Army there at a time when the Americans and many others are considering immense reductions, which we in this country want to see? We want to reduce the scale of the arms budget west of Suez, as well as east of Suez.

Mr. Healey

My hon. Friend will be glad to know that I share his desire to reduce the arms budget, but not at the expense of the nation's security.

42. Sir C. Osborne

asked the Secretary of State for Defence, in view of the changing rôle of the North Atlantic Treaty Organisation, including France's desire to opt out, and that of the United States to reduce overseas expenditure, what negotiations he is having to reduce the British Army of the Rhine and gradually to bring home British troops; and if he will make a statement.

28. Mr. Hamling

asked the Secretary of State for Defence what plans he has for bringing back the British Army of the Rhine to this country.

Mr. Healey

As things stand, we have no intention of bringing back or reducing the British Army of the Rhine, provided means are found for meeting the foreign exchange costs.

Sir C. Osborne

Does the Minister suggest that our troops will stay there for ever? Why cannot the Germans defend their own country? What right have we to put our troops there and let the Americans pay for them? Surely we have some pride left?

Mr. Healey

I think most of the House will recognise that the presence of our forces in Germany is an essential part in the strength and solidarity of N.A.T.O. on which our survival depends. I point out that I said, "As things now stand". Her Majesty's Government hope that it may be possible to reach some agreement with the Warsaw Powers on a reciprocal reduction of arms in both parts of Europe, which would enable us on both sides of the Iron Curtain to make substantial savings.

Mr. Henig

Will my right hon. Friend bear in mind that in any decision to leave Germany to defend herself, the great danger, if this is done, is that the Germans might decide to buy nuclear weapons, which some of us believe would be a great threat to the peace of Europe?

Mr. Healey

I think my hon. Friend is absolutely right. The existence of the alliance is not only necessary to the security of our country but also a very important framework within which Germany can grow democratically and prosperously and not as a danger to her neighbours.

Sir A. V. Harvey

The right hon. Gentleman said earlier that he had sold £8 million worth of goods to pay for the cost of these troops. Does not he think that it would be more appropriate to give a little credit to those who helped him to do that? Will he say when the balance will be sold to make up the cost of these troops before the autumn?

Mr. Healey

On the first part of the hon. Gentleman's supplementary question, as he knows, the sales are not finally concluded. He would agree that any sale of this nature requires a great deal of hard work by a very large number of people, not only inside but outside the Government, before it can be concluded. I think that he will find that the sale of the £8 million worth of goods brings us close to the total of military purchases envisaged by the current offset agreement. He will know that the Chancellor of the Exchequer is shortly to discuss with the German Finance Minister the major question of covering foreign exchange costs in general.

Mr. James Davidson

Would the right hon. Gentleman say whether consideration has been given to the possibility of keeping our troops in Germany on an active service basis and replacing them periodically in order to save expenditure on the cost of permanent bases and family quarters?

Mr. Healey

We have considered a very, very large number of possibilities.

Mr. Frank Allaun

Will my right hon. Friend confirm that we are spending £195 million a year on B.A.O.R., nearly half of it in foreign exchange? Secondly, will he at least consider this morning's statement that the Soviet Government are offering to withdraw part of their forces from Europe?

Mr. Healey

I think that my hon. Friend had better put down a Question on his first point. On his second point, I have no knowledge of such a statement, but if there is one I should like to consider it before I comment on it.

45. Mrs. Renée Short

asked the Secretary of State for Defence what progress he has made in negotiations with the West German Government about their obligations in connection with support costs for the British Army of the Rhine; and if he will make a statement.

Mr. Healey

During my recent visit to Bonn, I was able to arrange for the purchase of British equipment to the value of £8 million under the existing offset agreement. The question of a greater German contribution to the foreign exchange burden arising out of the stationing of our forces in Germany is now being pursued by my right hon. Friend the Chancellor of the Exchequer and the Federal German Minister of Finance. I hope that these negotiations will be brought to a satisfactory conclusion.

Mrs. Short

Is my right hon. Friend aware that there is growing exasperation on both sides of the House at the continued refusal of the West German Government to meet their obligations in this matter and that the large burden of foreign exchange on our economy is quite untenable? Is he further aware that we regard the offer of £8 million, spread over two years, as quite derisory and an insult to the British people? We also feel that the acquisition of arms——

Mr. Speaker

Order. The hon. Lady must learn to make her supplementary questions shorter. Mr. Healey will answer.

Mr. Healey

First, I am well aware of the depth of feeling on this matter, not only inside but outside the House, and I communicated it to Herr von Hassel during our talks. It is very important that the German Government and people should be aware how we feel. My hon. Friend was unfair to the German Government. This £8 million is in addition to a very large amount of money which they have already spent under the existing offset agreement.

Mr. Powell

Is it the Government's object to secure a complete offset during the current financial year? If so, do they expect to achieve it?

Mr. Healey

The Chancellor made clear our objective in that respect. Of course, we always hope to achieve our objectives.