HC Deb 16 June 1966 vol 729 cc1651-3
Q4. Sir K. Joseph

asked the Prime Minister if he will define the responsibilities of the Minister of Labour in relation to the Government's prices and incomes policy.

The Prime Minister

I would refer the right hon. Gentleman to the Answer given on 25th May by my right hon. Friend the First Secretary of State to a Question by my hon. Friend the Member for Ashton-under-Lyne (Mr. Sheldon).

Sir K. Joseph

But can the Prime Minister say how the duties there laid on the Minister of Labour to carry out the incomes policy so far as the earnings of the private sector are concerned can be reconciled with the Minister's traditional responsibilities for conciliation?

The Prime Minister

Of course they can be reconciled. It is Government policy to carry out the prices and incomes policy. My right hon. Friend has a duty for conciliation. I hope that the right hon. Gentleman is not suggesting that my right hon. Friend, in his conciliation duties, should be pursuing a prices and incomes policy different from that which I thought was accepted by all parties in the House. My right hon. Friend is not a schizophrenic.

Sir C. Osborne

Does the Prime Minister still regard the prices and incomes policy as important? Can he save it, or will he abandon it altogether?

The Prime Minister

We regard it as important and we regard it as essential, as we have said very many times. So far as its future is concerned, of course it is running, and has run, into many difficulties because of the special problems in introducing it when there are anomalies in our wage and salary and incomes structure. We have had our fair share of difficulties, but we intend to persist with the policy.

Mr. Heath

Is there not a very important point of principle here, in that the functions of the Minister of Labour as a Minister for conciliation—he is responsible under the Act for conciliation and has officers in his Department responsible for conciliation—can conflict with the incomes policy of any Government? In these circumstances, which course is he to pursue? Surely this is a major matter of principle which should be decided by any Government.

The Prime Minister

There would be a conflict if one thought that my right hon. Friend's conciliation duties were simply to split the difference between the employers and the trade union concerned without regard to the national interest. It must always be the duty of any Government—I am sure that the right hon. Gentleman agrees—to have regard to the third party to every bargain, namely, the public and the national interest. Having seen my right hon. Friend at work in tie last two or three days on one of the most difficult problems, I see no difficulty or conflict in the duties imposed on him.