Minister of State (Talks)

HC Deb 26 July 1966 vol 732 cc1419-20

12. Mr. James Johnson

asked the Secretary of State for Commonwealth Relations if he will make a statement regarding the talks between the Minister of State and the Zambia Government upon her visit to Lusaka.

Mrs. Hart

I would refer the hon. Member to the reply which my right hon. Friend gave on 5th July to the hon. Member for Haltemprice (Mr. Wall), to which I have nothing to add.

Mr. Johnson

Is my hon. Friend aware that, despite her valuable visit, there has been a steady worsening of the political climate in Lusaka? Will she state categorically that no independence will be given to Rhodesia before there is majority rule by Africans in that territory?

Mrs. Hart

My hon. Friend will recognise—as he has, indeed, done by what he has said—that there is a considerable area of political disagreement between ourselves and Zambia, stretching back to the events immediately following U.D.I. He will also recognise that it would be unwise for the British Government, in advance of any further consideration of this matter, to give the kind of assurance he has asked for.

Mr. Sandys

Since I understand that the Minister of State discussed with the Zambian Government the use of the Rhodesian Railways, may I ask whether, now that Zambia has decided to resume the dispatch of copper over the Rhodesian Railways on condition that the purchasers pay the freight, Her Majesty's Government will allow British purchasers to make these payments?

Mrs. Hart

That raises a different question.

Mr. Faulds

Is my hon. Friend aware that, during this last week, I have been fortunate enough to have talks with President Kaunda and the Foreign Minister Mr. Kapwepwe and that they are both deeply disturbed by what they consider the British Government's deception in the matter of sanctions and by the British Government's lack of zeal in finishing off the Smith regime? Is she further aware that it is this which will lead to Zambia quitting the Commonwealth?

Mrs. Hart

If Zambia were to leave the Commonwealth that would be a most regrettable and serious situation not only for Zambia and Britain but for the Commonwealth as well. I hope that it can be avoided. I have had with President Kaunda and certainly with Mr. Kapwepwe frequent and full discussions about the sanctions policy and we are in no doubt about each other's point of view and the precise areas on which I would strongly disagree with some of Mr. Kapwepwe's assertions.