HC Deb 11 July 1966 vol 731 cc972-6

The following Question stood upon the Order Paper:

98. Mr. BRUCE-GARDYNE

To ask the Minister of Aviation if he will make a statement on the outcome of the Ministerial conference of participants in the European Launcher Development Organisation in Paris on 7th and 8th July.

The Minister of Aviation (Mr. Frederick Mulley)

I will, with permission, answer Question No. 98.

At the third and final session of the Conference of Ministers it was agreed that the Initial programme (E.L.D.O. A) should be completed and upgraded by the development of inertial guidance and a perigee/apogee system to meet the requirements of a geostationary communication satellite as well as those of European Space Research Organisation (E.S.R.O.).

With effect from 1st January next there will be a new scale of contributions to cover all remaining work—U.K. 27 per cent. instead of 38.79 per cent., Federal Republic of Germany 27 per cent., France 25 per cent., Italy 12 per cent., and Belgium and Netherlands 9 per cent. to be shared between them. Australia remains a member of the present basis of making available facilities at the Woomera range.

It was also agreed that there should be an overall ceiling of commitments for participating states of about £118 million (331 million Monetary Units or U.S. dollars).

An operation equatorial site—necessary for the new programme—will be established in French Guiana. Test firings will continue to be made at Woomera.

The following steps were taken to improve the management of the Organisation and the technical and financial control of the programmes:

  1. (i) Contracts are to be placed directly by the Secretariat on the basis of tenders and fixed prices wherever possible.
  2. (ii) Separate project management directorates will be established.
  3. (iii) Inspectors are to be appointed and
  4. (iv) Annual reviews of projects are to be conducted.
The Conference also agreed arrangements to examine the problems of coordinating space policies in Europe.

I am sure that the House will welcome the outcome of these Conferences which has been to get a better E.L.D.O. programme, to which we contribute a more equitable share, combined with a greater sense of urgency and improved managerial and financial control.

Mr. R. Carr

We certainly welcome this arrangement, but can the Minister assure the House that by entering into it the Government have now firmly and finally reversed their previous decision to leave E.L.D.O. and can, therefore, now be relied upon to play their full part in achieving E.L.D.O.'s objectives?

Secondly, will the right hon. Gentleman tell the House whether the Government will ensure that Britain has a national space programme of its own sufficient to ensure a proper spin-off, technologically, into British industry and to make sure that British industry has the capability of getting its full share of international contracts?

Mr. Mulley

I must repeat again that the Government never had any intention of leaving the E.L.D.O. organisation. [HON. MEMBERS: "Oh."] I think it unlikely that I should have been able to negotiate such an admirable agree- ment if there had been suspicion of a lack of desire to play our full part in the organisation.

On the right hon. Gentleman's second point, it is part of E.L.D.O.'s value that we get technological spin-off. As I have said before, the basis of our space policy is this European co-operation, and it is against that, now that this is settled, that we shall judge our future national effort.

Several Hon. Members

rose—

Mr. Speaker

Mr. Biggs-Davison.

Mr. Biggs-Davison

Was the choice of—

Mr. Bruce-Gardyne

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker—

Mr. Speaker

I am sorry. I will call the hon. Member for South Angus (Mr. Bruce-Gardyne) next. Mr. Biggs-Davison.

Mr. Biggs-Davison

Was the choice of French Guiana rather than Darwin made on technical or political grounds?

Mr. Mulley

I gave full support to the Australian Government in putting forward their proposals, although, on balance, I think that the technical advice is in favour of French Guiana. When the Australians, in the light of the French technical and financial case, withdrew their claims for Darwin, I thought that was a very reasonable end to the matter.

Mr. Speaker

I apologise to the hon. Member whose Question it was for not calling him first. Mr. Bruce-Gardyne.

Mr. Bruce-Gardyne

Could the Minister explain this? If the Government never had any intention of leaving the project, why was he quoted as saying on his return to Paris last week that Britain had re-entered E.L.D.O.? Would he not agree that the way the Government have handled the whole affair has further undermined confidence in the British Government's intentions among our partners in Europe? Will this not have a serious effect on other projects, such as the air-bus?

Mr. Mulley

I do not remember having made any such statement as the one I have been alleged to make. I have never used a phrase like "We have re-entered E.L.D.O.", or anything else.

The air-bus is a separate project, on which we are only in the negotiation stage. No commitments have been entered into. The communiqué after the June meeting of the Conference of Ministers about this project recorded the cordial and co-operative atmosphere in which the meeting had been conducted. Our last meeting was conducted in exactly that frame of mind by all those who took part.

Mr. George Jeger

I congratulate my right hon. Friend on a very smart piece of bargaining. Can he say how much of this revised expenditure is to be spent on contracts in Britain?

Mr. Mulley

The future basis will be the same as in the past—that is, less administrative expenses, 100 per cent. of its contribution will be spent, as far as possible, in each member country. I think it likely that we shall get a shade more than 100 per cent. on that basis.

Sir B. Craddock

Will the right hon. Gentleman say something of the time scale? When is it hoped to have the first launching completed?

Mr. Mulley

With the improvement envisaged, the programme should be completed in 1970–71.

Mr. Edwin Wainwright

If the completed project is to be a miniature of the American project, would it not be futile to continue with it? Will my hon. Friend bear that in mind?

Mr. Mulley

If the plans go well, the launcher will produce a capability of about four times that of the Early Bird satellite. This would be a useful and worth-while European capability in telecommunications.

Sir H. Legge-Bourke

Following the question put by my right hon. Friend the Member for Mitcham (Mr. R. Carr), will the Minister accept that, to do the job properly, we have to have a home-based industry as well? Any spin-off we are to get will dwindle unless we have a home-based industry.

Mr. Mulley

There are great differences of view on the value of spin-off. Practically the whole of our contribution to E.L.D.O. will be spin-off for British industry.

Mr. Longden

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that, whatever he may or may not have done in the past, the whole House, with the exception of the hon. Member for Dearne Valley (Mr. Edwin Wainwright), will wish more power to his E.L.D.O.?

Mr. Mulley

I am much obliged.

Mr. Blenkinsop

While welcoming this agreement very much, may I ask my right hon. Friend whether he is aware that, at the recent W.E.U. meeting in Paris, it was agreed that any European launcher programme should clearly be related to the international launcher programme as well?

Mr. Mulley

I do not know about the international launcher programme, but the international basis of communications satellites is under consideration.