HC Deb 06 July 1966 vol 731 cc586-90
Mrs. Shirley Williams

I beg to move, Amendment No. 10, in page 19, line 14, to leave out "payment" and to insert: sums so paid, together with a reasonable amount in respect of interest thereon from the date of payment". With your permission, Mr. Deputy Speaker, may we take with that Amendment the following Government Amendments: Nos. 11, 12, 13, 14, 16, 17, 18, 19, and 21?

Mr. Deputy Speaker

If that is convenient to the House, so be it.

Mrs. Williams

These Amendments attempt to meet a point raised in Committee by the right hon. Member for Leeds, North-East (Sir K. Joseph) and by the hon. Member for Cirencester and Tewkesbury (Mr. Ridley), that the arrangements for the contribution of the levy on licensed employers which could be imposed under the terms of the original Bill, did not fully reflect the division of business as a result of these licensing arrangements.

These Amendments attempt to meet the point that was made with regard to a different basis upon which the levy should be based. The right hon. Gentleman said that the Opposition would like to see the levy based on a period of up to five years on payment of gross wages. The Government's view is that this is too long a period, because it might lead to a suspension of the licensing operation for that period while the sum is being assessed, and it will lead to postponements and complications in the licensing process, which, for reasons which have been made clear, we are most anxious not to have.

The purpose of these Amendments is to meet the principle on which the right hon. Gentleman wished the levy to rest, and to shorten the period from 5 years to 12 months, during which time we think that it will be possible to assess the basis of the redistribution of business.

It is our view that during the first year after which the licensing has come into force there should be a fairly rapid emergence of the way in which business will be redistributed among those employers who are licensed, and right hon. and hon. Gentlemen will possibly have accepted this point, because in moving the argument for a two-year period and requesting renewal, they must, preliminary to their argument, have accepted that within a year it would be possible for the licensing authority to assess the business which will go to an employer. For this reason we think that one year should be sufficient, and it will be the case, therefore, that the levy will be based on the gross wages paid during this 12-month period.

There are certain other matters which associate themselves with this. If an employer wants to have his licence revoked during this period, he will have to pay the levy in proportion to the gross wages paid by him during the period he was in business, but not for the period after his licence is revoked. Similarly, if a business changes hands during this period, the purchaser of the business will be liable for the levy, but this will be reflected in the purchase price since it will be recognised that the levy is being drawn up in this way.

We have in Amendment No. 18 defined what we mean by gross wages and as, at present, the returns are normally rendered weekly by all registered employers to the Dock Labour Board, it will be possible to check any returns against these and there should not be any great complications in moving to this different basis of levy.

This Amendment is consequential, but it arises from the fact that the licensing authority may have to borrow money in order to make compensation payments, and because of the 12-month period there may be some delay in assessing for levy. The Amendment makes it possible, in assessing the levy, for interest which may be payable on any loan to the licensing authority to be borne by the levy when it is finally drawn up. If we are going to make this type of provision for assessing for levy it is necessary to compensate the Board for any period of time which may elapse as a result of that new basis of levy. I hope that the right hon. Gentleman will recognise that this is an attempt to meet the point he made in Committee and will accept the Amendment.

Mr. Ridley

We thank the hon. Lady very much. She has met our point handsomely and fairly in every respect, and we quite see this disadvantage in the five-year period as against the one-year period that has been put in instead. It is a matter of gratification that this point, which has involved a great deal of drafting and deep thought, should have been dealt with so adequately by the Government. It has made a great improvement in the Bill and we are most grateful to the hon. Lady. We accept the Amendment with pleasure.

Amendment agreed to.

Further Amendments made: No. 11, in page 19, line 16, leave out "on the relevant date" and insert: at the end of the relevant period. The aggregate of the sums so paid and of the said amount of interest is hereafter in this section referred to as the potential amount of the levy. (2) A person whose licence is revoked during the relevant period shall be treated for the purposes of this section as if the licence were in force at the end of that period".

No. 12, in line 22, leave out from "date" to end of line 24 and insert: of the decision to impose the levy".

No. 13, in line 33, leave out from "the" to end of line 39 and insert: total amount of gross wages paid by him during the relevant period to registered dock workers employed by him in the port in question and shall bear the same proportion to the potential amount of the levy as the total amount of those wages bears to the total amount of gross wages paid by all registered employers during that period in the port to registered dock workers employed by them there. (5) If during the relevant period the dock business of any person has been transferred by agreement or by operation of law to another person, the person in whom it is vested at the end of that period shall be treated for the purposes of this section as if he had employed in the port in question the dock workers employed there in the business during that period and had paid the wages paid to them during that period".

No. 14, in line 44, leave out from beginning to "and" in line 9 on page 20 and insert:

  1. (a) the potential amount of the levy, showing separately the amounts of compensation or interest paid, of any costs and expenses paid, and of any interest on any such payments;
  2. (b) the total amount of the gross wages paid during the relevant period in the port in question by all registered employers to registered dock workers employed by them there, the total amount of the gross wages paid during that period by the person on whom the notice is served to registered dock workers employed by him there and the proportion which the latter amount bears to the former;
  3. (c) the total amount of the gross wages paid during that period by the licensing authority lo registered dock workers employed by it in the port in question;
  4. (d) the amount of the levy to be paid by the person on whom the notice is served and the share of the potential amount of the levy which is to be borne by the licensing authority. —[Mrs. Shirley Williams.]

Mrs. Shirley Williams

I beg to move Amendment No. 15, in page 20, line 15, at the end to insert: (6) If it appears to the licensing authority that any amount specified in a notice served on any person under the last foregoing subsection has been incorrectly calculated, the licensing authority may by a subsequent notice served on that person correct the amount so specified.

This Amendment is consequential upon the previous Amendment. It meets the case where there may be some clerical or arithmetical error, which may arise from the slightly more complicated basis of compensation which the House accepted in the last group of Amend- ments, and I hope it will be so recognised and accepted by the House.

Amendment agreed to.

Further Amendments made: No. 16, in page 20, line 23, leave out "date" and insert "period".

No. 17, in line 28, after "thereto", insert: the period of twelve months beginning with".

No. 18, in line 32, after "thereto", insert: the period of twelve months beginning with".

No. 19, in line 32, at end insert: and the amount of any gross wages paid by a registered employer during any period shall be taken for the purposes of this section to be the amount specified in the return of such wages made by him to the local board in pursuance of any labour scheme"—[Mrs. Shirley Williams.]