HC Deb 28 February 1966 vol 725 cc889-92
26. Mr. Neave

asked the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs why the claims of Group Captain Day, Lieutenant-Colonel John Churchill, Mr. Sydney Dowse and other military personnel for compensation under the Anglo-German Agreement of 1964 as victims of Nazi persecution in Sachsenhausen concentration camp and other camps have been rejected by his Department; and whether he will make a statement.

Mr. George Thomson

Under the terms of the Anglo-German Agreement the compensation is reserved for those who suffered the horrors and degradation of concentration camps.

These particular claims had to be rejected because they did not fulfil this requirement. The cells in which the men were held, although adjoining the Sachsenhausen Concentration Camp, were quite separate from it and the conditions and treatment in these cases were not comparable with those within the main concentration camp.

Mr. Neave

Is not that a most pedantic and unreasonable decision? Is the hon. Gentleman aware that these men were arrested as enemies of Nazi ideology, were imprisoned and ill-treated as such, and will he therefore refer this matter to the Foreign Compensation Commission so that, in spite of the need for rules of guidance, we may have a decision based on the facts in this case and not on other suggestions which have been made?

Mr. Thomson

The men whom the hon. Gentleman is representing were, of course, gallant Service men and very audacious escapers during the Second World War. Their place of imprisonment, although in geographical proximity—[Interruption.]—although next to a concentration camp, had no connection with the main compound, and the conditions and treatment experienced were no worse than those experienced in the average prisoner-of-war camp. I am not in a position to meet the requests of the hon. Gentleman under the terms of the Anglo-German Agreement, to which I referred. To answer his second point about the matter being referred to the Foreign Compensation Commission, this has been dealt with administratively with a view to the making of payments to those who are entitled to payments as quickly as possible.

Sir Alec Douglas-Home

Would not the hon. Gentleman agree that these persons were inside the main barbed wire perimeter of the concentration camp, that they were in sight of the horrors which were perpetrated in that camp day by day and did not know what fate might befall them? Will not he look at this again? It seems to me to be a case which he should examine again, because there is no doubt that these people were inside the perimeter of a concentration camp.

Mr. Thomson

I assure the right hon. Gentleman that this matter has been very closely looked at. The hon. Member for Abingdon (Mr. Neave) and I have had a number of meetings about it, and he has made, as he was entitled to do, very strong representations about it. The difficulty is that the treatment which these people suffered could not be equated with the concentration camp treatment for which the agreement was designed. I am bound to tell the right hon. Gentleman that I am puzzled that he should take this matter up in the way that he has because what we are trying to do, with great difficulty in connection with a difficult human problem, is to carry out the criteria laid down by Lord Butler when he was Foreign Secretary in July, 1964. I understand that at that time he had private meetings with Conservative bank-bench Members, including the hon. Member for Abingdon, and that no subsequent representations were made about the criteria laid down which we are now trying to administer with the greatest possible humanity.

Mr. Shinwell

May I ask my hon. Friend to look at this matter again? Should we allow a technical objection to stand in the way of acting with some humanity? Is it wise for him to rely on a decision taken by Lord Butler?

Mr. Thomson

We are not relying on a technical consideration. We are trying, to the best of our judgment, to exercise this agreement with humanity. There is a sum of £1 million available for the victims of Nazi persecution as I defined it a moment or two ago. We have an obligation to those British citizens who were victims of concentration camp conditions to ensure that their rights under this agreement are protected. If we were to concede the point pressed by the hon. Member for Abingdon and my right hon. Friend the Member for Easington (Mr. Shinwell), it would simply mean that those who had suffered the concentration camp conditions would enjoy much less than their proper share of the total sum.

Sir Alec Douglas-Home

May I ask the hon. Gentleman not to allow himself to be influenced by whether a decision was taken by one Government or another in this matter? Will he look at it afresh? These persons were inside the perimeter of a concentration camp and subject to all the nervous tensions to which people were subjected in that situation. I beg the hon. Gentleman—and I believe that the whole House would support me in this—to look at this matter again to see whether he can stretch the rules to include these people.

Mr. Thomson

I should like to do so if I could because there is obviously strong feeling on both sides of the House. But we are bound to stand by the criteria laid down and under which applications have been made. I am bound to tell the right hon. Gentleman that, although the geographical situation of where these people were imprisoned is not in doubt, equally it is not in doubt that they did not suffer from concentration camp conditions. I have before me a letter from one of the most distinguished of the prisoners there, Captain Peter Churchill, who writes: I entirely endorse the contents of your courteous letter of 9th September".

Several Hon. Members rose

—

Mr. Speaker

We cannot debate this matter now.

Mr. Neave

In view of the very unsatisfactory nature of the reply, I beg to give notice that I will raise this matter on the Adjournment at the earliest opportunity.