Clause 7.—(ASSESSMENT OF DISABLEMENT.) (Hansard, 17 February 1966)

§ Mr. Kenneth Lewis (Rutland and Stamford)
On a point of order, Sir Samuel. Last evening, when we were discussing Clause 6, I referred to certain matters arising out of it about which I had some doubt. The Clause was then disposed of, and I went upstairs to put down an Amendment which I could move on Report. I now understand that there may not be a Report stage, in which case I shall not be able to raise this matter again as fully as I did last night. Will you take this fact into account, Sir Samuel, when we discuss the new Clauses, so that I may return to the point which I was seeking to make last night? Can this be done when we reach the first of the new Clauses on the Notice Paper?

§ The Chairman
No point of order arises at the moment. We are discussing the Question, "That Clause 7 stand part of the Bill". I cannot give any Ruling as to what will happen when we reach the new Clauses.

§ Mr. Lewis
In that case I shall seek to raise this matter on the Question, " That the Clause stand part of the Bill. "
The Clause before us deals with the assessment of disablement, and to that extent I hope that it may be connected with Clause 6. Last night we were discussing the question of the extra £3 allowances to be made under the pro visions of Clause 6—

§ The Chairman
Order. We cannot go back to Clause 6. We have passed that now.

§ Mr. Lewis
The reason I have raised this matter at this stage is that there is unlikely to be a Report stage of the Bill. Will you be prepared, Sir Samuel, to arrange that there is a Report stage, so 1551 that I can move the Amendment which I sought to move last night? I can then give it to you in manuscript and my Amendment can be discussed.

§ The Chairman
The arrangement of a Report stage has nothing to do with me. At present, we are discussing nothing more than the Question, "That the Clause stand part of the Bill".

§ Dame Irene Ward (Tynemouth)
I have got into rather a muddle over this. I thought that when we terminated our discussion last night—so that we could discuss the Orders on Rhodesia—my hon. Friend was discussing matters relating to Clause 7, and that, as is the normal practice when business is changed because other essential business is required to be dealt with, the hon. Member who had the Floor when the debate was cut off was allowed to continue his speech when the Committee returned to the debate. I do not understand why that has not happened in this case.

§ The Chairman
In the first place, the hon. and learned Member who was in possession of the Committee is not in my vision at present. All that we are now discussing is the question, "That the Clause stand part of the Bill."

§ Mr. Lewis
May I ask you, Sir Samuel, how an hon. Member on either side, in a situation of this kind, can make a point on Report in respect of a Clause that has been passed in Committee, when, as I am informed, there is unlikely to be a Report stage?

§ The Chairman
It is not for the Chair to give guidance to hon. Members as to how they should raise matters in the House or Committee. We have passed Clause 6 now. Whether there is a Report stage is a matter for the Committee.

§ Mr. Lewis
I am sorry to press this matter, Sir Samuel. I do not think that this is a matter for the Committee. Can you tell me how this Committee, or the House, can ensure that there is a Report stage on the Bill? I would like to have a Report stage. If there is no Report stage there will be no opportunity for a discussion, which should be available to hon. Members. I think that I am right in asking you to protect me, as a back bench Member, so that I am enabled to put my point of view.

§ The Chairman
I can only repeat that it is no business of the Chair to arrange a Report stage. The hon. Member cannot now raise matters which he did not raise at the proper stage. We have now discussed Clause 6 and passed from it, and we cannot go back at present.

§ Sir Keith Joseph (Leeds, North-East)
Can the Minister expedite this part of the proceedings, to help my hon. Friend in what is a very legitimate interest, by making some reference, in the Third Reading debate, to the point in which he is interested? Can she also make it possible, when the Bill goes to another place, for the point of substance which my hon. Friend has in mind, in the light of her comments on it, to be considered during the various stages of the Bill there? I hope that my hon. Friend will find that helpful. Will the Minister consider making some reference, in her Third Reading speech, to my hon. Friend's legitimate point?

The Minister of Pensions and National Insurance (Miss Margaret Herbson)
I will help if I can, but this will depend on whoever is in the Chair when we reach Third Reading. I may be ruled out of order. If not, I shall be most willing to refer to this matter. I thought that a sufficient explanation had been given to the hon. Member, and that if he were interested he would have read the McCorquodale Report and discovered what that Comittee had proposed, and how we have carried its proposals out. But if I can help in my Third Reading speech I shall be most happy to do so.

§ Mr. Kenneth Lewis
Further to that point of order. It is because I have read the McCorquodale Report—

§ The Chairman
There is no point of order before the Committee. The hon. Member is not speaking further to any point of order.

§ Mr. Lewis
On another point of order, Sir Samuel. Arising out of what the right hon. Lady has said, may I point out that it is because I have read that Report, in the light of her remarks, that I want to raise this matter. I shall be quite happy so long as I am allowed to mention it en route in the proceedings of the Bill. The reason that I have raised this point of order is in order that you, Sir Samuel, will understand the difficulty 1553 that I was in last night and the difficulty that I am in now. Provided that the matter can be raised without my being called to order in future, I am quite happy.

§ The Chairman
There is no point of order before the Committee. What happens in the Third Reading debate can be dealt with only when we reach that stage of the Bill. We have passed Clause 6, and we cannot deal with this matter at present.