§ 23. Mr. McMasterasked the Minister of Aviation if he will seek to hold discussions between Messrs. Short Brothers and Harland and the British Aircraft Corporation and Hawker Siddeley with a view to merging their aircraft and missile construction interests; and if he will make a statement.
§ Mr. MulleyIn considering the future organisation of the industry I will certainly bear this suggestion in mind
§ Mr. McMasterWill the right hon. Gentleman renew the pledge given by his predecessor and again by the First Secretary of State in Belfast—that he will ensure a future place for Shorts as a working part of the British aircraft industry?
§ Mr. MulleyI cannot add to what I said in the debate on the Plowden Report.
§ 24. Mr. McMasterasked the Minister of Aviation what support he will give to the approach made by the European consortium of V.F.W. and Fokker to Short Brothers and Harland with a view to the joint design and production of the VFW614 as based on the Shorts PD65 specification.
§ 26. Captain Orrasked the Minister of Aviation if he will make a statement about the progress of negotiations between V.F.W., Fokker and Short Brothers and Harland with a view to the production of a twin-jet replacement for the DC3.
§ 28. Mr. Kilfedderasked the Minister of Aviation whether he will contribute the necessary finance to enable Short Brothers and Harland, Belfast, to take a 40 per cent. interest in the production of the VFW614 in collaboration with the German/Dutch consortium.
§ 34. Mr. Stratton Millsasked the Minister of Aviation if he will make a statement on the negotiations to enable Short Brothers and Harland to join in the joint design and production of the VFW614.
§ Mr. MulleyIn parallel with talks between representatives of the British, German and Dutch industries, my officials are discussing with the German and Dutch officials the basis on which a collaborative twin-jet feeder-liner project might go ahead. Further meetings are to be held shortly and I cannot anticipate their outcome. What rôle Short Bros. and Harland might play in such a project is not yet clear, though the possibility of their participation on some basis is by no means excluded.
§ Mr. McMasterIs the right hon. Gentleman aware that V.F.W. itself approached Short Brothers and Harland to take part in the scheme as a result of the co-operation which Shorts had been carrying on with Fokker in Germany? Will he support this co-operative effort of Shorts, which was recommended by the Plowden Report?
§ Mr. MulleyThe hon. Gentleman has only one criterion on aircraft projects—that is, whether they will provide work for Shorts. While I sympathise with his desires in that direction, I must apply wider criteria, and the first is to estab 1308 lish whether this would be a worthwhile project in which this country should take part.
§ Captain OrrWill the right hon. Gentleman at least undertake that no project into which Shorts enters will be frustrated by Government decision if the project has been freely negotiated by Shorts itself?
§ Mr. MulleyThere is a great deal of misunderstanding about the project. I understand that no British company is able to take part without a substantial amount of Government help and it is on the question of Government help that I must reserve the position of the Government.
§ Mr. MillsCan the right hon. Gentleman say whether the difficulty for Shorts in this venture is money or design?
§ Mr. MulleyAs I tried to make clear, the first matter to be established is whether there is a market—worthwhile economic possibilities—for such a joint venture. That question is being pursued between the Government and the officials of the companies concerned.
§ Mr. R. CarrCan the right hon. Gentleman categorically deny the rumour that his predecessor told the German authorities in Bonn that Shorts was not to be considered for this collaboration?
§ Mr. MulleyI was not present and it is not part of my job to confirm or deny rumours.
§ Sir Knox CunninghamDoes not the right hon. Gentleman realise that more than half the workers at Shorts—over 4,000 of them—will lose their jobs unless the Government do something about this? What are the Government going to do?
§ Mr. MulleyThis is a wider question which raises other issues. But even if it were possible to start this project today with Shorts in it, as it desires to be, it would not affect the production problem at Shorts, which arises from the failure of the Belfast to sell other than to the Royal Air Force.
§ 25. Captain Orrasked the Minister of Aviation if he will take steps to prevent the rapid run-down in employment at Short Brothers and Harland over the next 18 months, forecast on the basis of their 1309 present work load, by encouraging other aircraft manufacturers to place sub-contract orders in Northern Ireland.
§ 27. Mr. Kilfedderasked the Minister of Aviation what proposals he has to meet the expected reduction in the employment level at Short Brothers and Harland, Belfast, which the Plowden Report envisages.
§ Mr. MulleyShorts are continuing to seek sub-contract work, with my full support and approval, but in a period when the aircraft industry as a whole is shrinking, the indications are that no sub-contract or other work likely to be available will prevent a substantial rundown.
I am, however, discussing the matter further with the company.
§ Captain OrrWould the right hon. Gentleman now consider publishing the report of the consultants which the First Secretary's Department has had and which no doubt he has had and no doubt the management has had, and which in the ordinary course of events, because there are private shareholders in the company, will probably become public knowledge in any case? As the run-down is likely to be so rapid and so many people put so swiftly out of work, cannot something be done in the meantime to hold the bridge?
§ Mr. MulleyOn the second question we have encouraged Shorts to take and tender for sub-contract work on American aircraft and I am glad that they have succeeded in sub-contracts for the Phantom. The consultants were engaged jointly by the company and my right hon. Friend the First Secretary and the report was made to them and not to me. I will pass the hon. and gallant Gentleman's suggestion to my right hon. Friend who will no doubt communicate with the hon. and gallant Gentleman.
§ Mr. KilfedderWould not the right hon. Gentleman agree that harsh and inhuman treatment seems likely for about 4,000 employees of Shorts who may be put out of work in a relatively short time? Will he give an assurance that the Government will do everything possible to make sure that neither that number nor any number anywhere near it become unemployed?
§ Mr. MulleyI can deal only with aircraft projects, although I am doing all in my power to find work for the company which will represent the best position.
§ Mr. RoseWill my right hon. Friend consult the First Secretary to see whether the site could also be used for the production of machine tools?
§ Mr. MulleyI will certainly consult my right hon. Friend on those lines.
§ Mr. Chichester-ClarkCannot the right hon. Gentleman be much more frank about what happened at Bonn? Does he not want to clear up a rumour which is concerning the workers at Shorts?
§ Mr. MulleyI do not know where this rumour arose. I have made it quite clear, although this allegation persists in spite of what I have already told the House, that we are continuing talks to see whether this project is worth while and in that context we are considering what part Shorts will play.
§ Mr. McMasterIn view of the unsatisfactory nature of the replies to these questions, I beg to give notice that I shall raise the matter on the Adjournment.
§ 45. Mr. Pounderasked the Minister of Aviation if he will give an undertaking that he will not intervene in any contracts for aircraft design and production work which Short Brothers and Harland, Belfast, obtain by their own efforts.
§ Mr. MulleyI can give no such undertaking. I must, for example, ensure that such contracts do not seem likely to involve unacceptable risks to public money.
§ Mr. PounderWhile bearing that Answer in mind, may I ask how the Minister reconciles it with that which he gave earlier this afternoon when he said that the Government were positively encouraging Shorts to tender for certain work?
§ Mr. MulleyIt is quite simple. I encourage Shorts to tender for work where there is not a Government financial involvement. Obviously I do not rule out Government assistance to any aircraft project but I do at least need to be consulted before commitments to this end arise.