HC Deb 09 February 1966 vol 724 cc408-13
The Minister of Technology (Mr. Frank Cousins)

With permission, I will make a statement about the building of a prototype fast reactor by the Atomic Energy Authority.

The fast reactor system is one of the principal lines of reactor development and shows good promise of being the most economical system in two senses—both in the cost of electricity produced, and in making the most effective use of uranium and of the plutonium produced as a by-product in Magnox and A.G.R. power stations. A balanced combination of these thermal and fast reactor stations represents the most efficient and economical power supply system which can be envisaged for the foreseeable future.

The Authority advises me that the design of a prototype is now sufficiently firm to justify starting construction and this has been sanctioned by the Government. The prototype will generate 250 MW (Electrical) and its cost, with the associated fuel production plant, will be about £30 million. It is expected that the reactor will be in operation in 1971.

I was advised by the Atomic Energy Authority that only two of its existing sites, namely, the reactor development establishments at Dounreay and Winfrith, would be suitable sites for the P.F.R. from the standpoint of technical requirements. After carefully considering all the relevant factors, the Government have decided that it should be built at Dounreay. The fuel production plant will be at Windscale.

Mr. Marples

While welcoming this decision, may I ask the right hon. Gentleman two or three questions? Besides the Dounreay and Winfrith sites, which other alternative locations were considered, and presumably rejected? Has the Minister taken the capital cost and the cost of transmission into account? Is Dounreay the most economical site? We well recognise that on regional grounds and on social considerations the site should be Dounreay, but could we have some estimate of what the costs are—if they are excessive—of siting the system there instead of in another place? Can the Minister say roughly what is the split of capital investment between Dounreay and Winfrith?

Mr. Cousins

The sites which were considered, in addition to the two I have mentioned, were Chapelcross and Wind-scale. For many reasons it was not considered proper to site the system in those places; the reactor facilities and research facilities were already in two places, and it was not felt proper to create additional research facilities at a place where these did not already exist.

There are many factors to be taken into account when considering the cost. It depends upon how one goes about assessing the extra cost. It is a question whether one can determine what the relative construction costs are, and what are the costs of the site itself and whether one has to take into account the transmission of electricity over a rather longer land line from there than from other areas. There is, therefore, a slight loss which is not excessive, but which has to be measured in quantity and cost.

There are other factors which have been taken into account. There is the question of the houses and schools which have been built at Thurso in the knowledge that development was taking place there. I hope to have something to say about development as distinct from research and the P.F.R. at a later stage. In total, the financial considerations did not play an important part in the siting decision. It is not possible to make a clear decision and say whether it would have cost a little more or less, because all the factors involved cannot be measured. But they were not all economic considerations which had to be measured. Winfrith has a tremendous amount of work going on and there is a fairly substantial programme of future work there.

Mr. Steele

Is my right hon. Friend aware that we of the Scottish Labour Group appreciate very much indeed the problems and difficulties which have been associated with this decision? Is he further aware that we warmly welcome the fact that the site is to be at Dounreay and that this decision will bring great encouragement to the people of the Highlands, and particularly to the Highlands and Islands Development Board, which will see it as a clear indication that the Government are prepared to ensure the further development of this part of Scotland, which has been forgotten for so long?

Mr. Cousins

I am, of course, well aware of the considerable satisfaction that this decision will give to this area. There has been a great deal of pressure and lobbying by all the parties concerned. The Highlands and Islands Development Board presented one of the best cases I have ever heard about the need for this kind of approach to the question of the northern part of Scotland and I am glad to be able to make this announcement.

But we must not rest exclusively on the idea that because P.F.R. is going to Dounreay that will be the end of the economic problems of the area. There is still a great deal to be done if we are to get satisfaction.

Mr. Noble

Will the right hon. Gentleman allow me to say how delighted we are on this side of the House that as a result of this decision, which has been rather long-delayed and which shows the careful consideration which has been going on in the Cabinet, the reactor will go to the right place? May I, through the right hon. Gentleman, extend my personal congratulations to the Secretary of State for Scotland for what I believe has been his part in getting this decision made?

May I ask the right hon. Gentleman two questions? First, does he remember which party caused Dounreay to be built, because there was some comment about the long time that this area had been forgotten? Secondly, can the right hon. Gentleman tell us whether this decision will bring a build-up of employment in the area, or merely hold, which is very important, the existing number of people there?

Mr. Cousins

I do not forget which party caused Dounreay to be built. The right hon. Gentleman from time to time uses the kind of arguments which we use. Dounreay would have been built a little earlier if we had been in office. A great deal of very serious consideration has been given to this matter. I wish that the right hon. Gentleman had not said what he did say on one occasion—it did not make it any easier for me—that I had taken a decision that the reactor should go to Winfrith. I was continually lobbied, despite the fact that we were dealing with technical considerations.

The right hon. Gentleman asked whether this decision will build up employment in the area. It will do so temporarily by a limited number of people and then, for a short period, it will maintain a little higher level of employment. One thing which I have said twice—and I hope that we shall have an opportunity to make this clear in our discussions on the subject later—is that by itself it will not bring such a degree of employment to Dounreay as will make it a thriving community. It will generate electricity. After we have gone through the experimental period it will be an electricity generating station.

Unless we do something about the development of the area, in 10 years' time we might be talking about the same things and hon. Members might be asking whether we will put the third form of reactor in Dounreay. That is not a question we can lightly dismiss. We cannot say that, having solved this problem, we have solved all the problems of the region.

Mr. Woodburn

Is my hon. Friend aware that this decision will give great encouragement to the scientists who went to Dounreay to start this experiment and who have done such excellent work there? Will it be possible to make use of the pump storage facilities at Dounreay for the surplus electricity by using some of the lochs in the Highlands in order to make use of the night-produced electricity?

Mr. Cousins

I am aware that the decision will give a great deal of satisfac- tion to the scientists, because a number of them have been displaying during the past few months a not unnatural anxiety about their future and as to whether they would have continuity of employment there. I suggest that my right hon. Friend's second question should be addressed to the Secretary of State for Scotland.

Mr. Monro

While welcoming the decision to bring the reactor to Scotland, is the Minister aware of the acute disappointment which will be felt at Chapelcross? Can he give the House any information about future developments at Chapelcross which will retain the existing labour force?

Mr. Cousins

I am aware of the disappointment that will be felt in many places that it has been decided not to put the reactor in those places. The Government's difficulty was that we were talking of building one prototype fast reactor, not four, or we could have satisfied everyone. As the hon. Gentleman knows, I visited his constituency and saw the people concerned. There were discussions about the suitability of Chapelcross, but it was not found possible to provide the extensive research and development facilities required if we had placed the P.F.R. there.

As I said to the hon. Gentleman in reply to a Question, there are no plans for additional projects at Chapelcross at the moment. There are some aspects of the A.E.A's work which alter and which require the use of generating areas rather than research and development areas.

Mr. Manuel

Is my right hon. Friend aware of the great satisfaction which his statement will bring not only to the scientists, but to the ordinary people of Scotland doing their daily jobs? Is he further aware of the intense satisfaction it will give to the Highland Development Board and that it will give a fillip to ancillary industries to go to the Highlands, which are being depopulated? His decision will receive a great deal of support in the Highland areas. Ultimately, it will lead to the repopulation in the Highlands.

Mr. George Y. Mackie

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that this decision is enormously sensible and will give great pleasure and satisfaction to the people of Caithness and round about? Will he be good enough to convey to his right hon. Friend the Secretary of State the congratulations of myself and others and a partial withdrawal of some of the things which I said as a spur to help him in the long-drawn-out battle which is now, fortunately and correctly, over? Can the right hon. Gentleman say when the work will start?

Mr. Cousins

I shall be delighted to pass on to my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State the views which the hon. Gentleman has expressed, particularly in view of the rather different and slightly more unpleasant things which he has said from time to time to him. It was understandable, but we had to examine all the factors.

We needed to take into consideration all the technical features to make sure that we had reached the right conclusion rather than a conclusion. It is, therefore, very satisfactory to know that we have made a decision which will please people. The work will start as soon as we can get in. We hope to get to the stage when we can see the possibility of the first commercial reactors by 1970.

Mr. Dalyell

Is it realised that most Scots interested in technical matters have been sensitive to the considerable technical and economic pressures of Winfrith? Is it also realised that the scientific community throughout Britain will congratulate the Government on their determination to spread modern scientific techniques and Government establishments throughout these islands?

Several Hon. Members rose—

Mr. Speaker

Order. We must move on.