COMMONWEALTH TEACHERS

HC Deb 09 February 1966 vol 724 cc553-69

10.59 p.m.

The Parliamentary Secretary to the Ministry of Overseas Development (Mr. Albert E. Oram)

I beg to move, That the Commonwealth Teachers (Extension of Financial Authority) Order, 1965, a draft of which was laid before this House on 26th November, be approved. The purpose of the Order is to increase the limit of £6 million for expenditure on Commonwealth Educational Cooperation imposed by the Commonwealth Teachers Act, 1960, to £11 million. The British Government, after the Commonwealth Education Conference held at Oxford in 1959, undertook to be responsible for the award of a total of 500 scholarships and fellowships in United Kingdom universities, colleges of technology or other appropriate establish- ments. The Commonwealth Scholarships Acts, 1959 and 1963, established the Commonwealth Scholarships Commission in the United Kingdom and authorised consequent expenditure incurred by Her Majesty's Government to be defrayed by monies provided by Parliament. The Commonwealth Teachers Act, 1960, provided for expenditure on co-operation in educational matters between Britain and other Commonwealth countries and territories, including the Commonwealth Scholarship and Fellowship Scheme, the further training in Britain of teachers from the Commonwealth and the supply of teachers. Charges have also been incurred under this Act in respect of graduate volunteer teachers in Commonwealth countries and in other kindred activities.

The Overseas Development and Service Act, which we passed last year, includes provision for technical assistance in the form of British expatriate staff serving overseas. Teachers now provided and financed under the Commonwealth Teachers Act will normally be financed under the Colonial Development and Service Act, save in exceptional cases where, with the agreement of the Treasury, it is wished to conclude arrangements with an overseas Government which it is not possible or practical to make under an agreement of the kind contemplated under the Act. The special schemes of Commonwealth educational co-operation involving expatriate staff, such as short-term advisory or instructional visits, will continue to be provided under the Commonwealth Teachers Act.

Subsection 1(3) of the Commonwealth Teachers Act, 1960, limits expenditure under this Act and the Commonwealth Scholarships Acts, 1959 and 1963, to a total of £6 million. Subsection 1 (4) provides that Her Majesty may, by Order in Council, substitute a limit of such larger amount as may be specified in the Order and that no Order shall be made so as to come into force before 1st April, 1965.

At that time about £1 million was unspent from the total of £6 million to which I referred earlier. This was due mainly to a considerable amount of teacher supply expenditure allowed for under the Commonwealth Educational Co-operation programme eventually being provided under the Overseas Service Aid Scheme. Therefore, what was anticipated under the provisions of the 1960 Act was, in the event, paid for in another way.

The Order would increase the limit from £6 million to £11 million, an amount sufficient to cover expected expenditure in the financial years 1965–66 and 1966–67. It is our intention to introduce legislation during the present Session to amend the Commonwealth Teachers Act so as, among other things, to obviate the need for further Orders in Council, but the present Order is necessary to authorise sufficient funds to be available until that legislation is passed.

The main reason for the rise in expenditure from £5 million in the five-year period 1960–65 to a further £6 million in the subsequent two years is the increased volume and level of current activity in respect of the various schemes as compared with the build-up period of the first five years.

The Order extends legislation brought in by the previous Government and, just as under that Government the Acts to which I have referred received the support of the whole House, I am confident that this extension of the financial provisions of this Measure will equally receive the unanimous support of hon. Members.

11.5 p.m.

Mr. Christopher Chataway (Lewisham, North)

I welcome this Order. We might even have expected it to be introduced sooner. When Commonwealth Educational Co-operation was started in 1959, it was envisaged that about £6 million would be expended in the first five years of its operation; that is, from 1960 to 1965. In the event, as the Parliamentary Secretary has said, only £4,900,000 has been spent.

I am grateful to him for the explanation—partial explanation—he has given about this shortfall. A part of the expenditure that would have fallen on this Commonwealth programme has, in fact, fallen on the Overseas Service Aid Scheme. Yet, in the first five years, we must recognise that the scheme has been slow to build up in certain respects. There are now one or two questions about the working of the scheme that I should like to ask, and also about action taken on programmes started in 1964. I have given notice of some of these questions and I hope that we may have a little more information than has so far been published.

At the Commonwealth Educational Conference in Ottawa in 1964, my right hon. Friend the Member for Birmingham, Handsworth (Sir E. Boyle) came forward with a number of new initiatives and I think that the House would like to hear what progress has been made with these. I assume that expenditure on all of them would, in fact, fall on moneys requested under this Order. My right hon. Friend laid emphasis, as have others, on the importance of the teaching of English in a number of Commonwealth countries, and announced in Ottawa that the British Government proposed to double the number of posts under the Aid for Commonwealth English Scheme for the next five years. I hope we may have an assurance that progress is being made along these lines.

Secondly, we announced at the Ottawa Conference that we should like to see some increase in the Teacher Training Bursary Scheme, particularly in the training of college lecturers, teachers of science and mathematics, and teachers of craftsmen and technicians. These are some of the most valuable forms of educational aid for the developing countries, and the target was a rise from 450 such bursaries each year to 550 as soon as possible.

Thirdly, a new scheme was introduced at Ottawa known as the study and serve scheme. Under this scheme, graduates are able to go out to universities and other institutions of higher education in Commonwealth countries, do a year's post-graduate study at these institutions, and then continue giving a year's service after they have finished their research. It was a condition of their being sent out under this scheme that they would give that service after their research was finished. We said at the Ottawa Conference that we expected a build-up of the numbers in the study and serve scheme to about 1,000 over the next five years.

The other commitment entered into by the British Government in 1964 about which I should like to inquire is a rather more important one. This is the scheme, which was agreed at the Prime Ministers' Conference in 1964, for capital assistance to universities and institutions of higher education in the Commonwealth. My right hon. Friend the Member for Kinross and West Perthshire (Sir Alec Douglas-Home) announced at that conference that the British Government were prepared to offer to increase capital assistance to Commonwealth universities to an average of £5 million a year. I think it would be a fair estimate to say that previous capital assistance had probably been running at an average of about £3 million a year; that is the best figure at which I can arrive anyway. It would seem, therefore, that it is an additional £2 million a year of capital assistance to Commonwealth universities that the Government are now required to give. I have not been able to find in the Estimates any head under which this capital assistance is to be given, and I am not sure whether the scheme falls within the terms of the Order, but I hope that the Parliamentary Secretary will be able to enlighten the House about that and give us an assurance that this very important scheme for Commonwealth universities is being carried through.

The only point I would make here, in parenthesis, is that I think it would be fair for us to concern ourselves with the cost of some of the university places being provided in Commonwealth countries. It is absolutely natural that new Commonwealth nations should wish to have well-designed universities of which they can feel proud, but one or two of us may know of instances where the capital cost per student of new universities in some of the developing countries is very high, and if we are to give this increased assistance, as I believe we should, to the development of institutions of higher education in the Commonwealth countries, I think we should also offer some advice on costs, as we in this country over the years have had to pay very close attention to the cost per place of providing higher education.

My fifth, and last, inquiry to the Parliamentary Secretary—I am afraid that I have not given him notice of it, and I shall understand if he prefers to give the information later—relates to the Centre for Educational Television Overseas which is to receive a grant of £40,000 in each of the next two years as a result of this Order. It was said in the Overseas Development Ministry's White Paper published in August of last year that there would be increased assistance for the Centre for Educational Television Overseas, and this seems to be a grant of £40,000 for 1966–67 and 1967–68, which is the same as for the previous year. I should like an assurance that the future of C.E.T.O. is assured. I understand that some covenants and other sources of revenue may not be too certain after the next two or three years, and I think that everybody concerned with educational aid will want to be certain that the very valuable services of C.E.T.O. can be continued.

I should be glad to know whether the scheme that was mooted for moving C.E.T.O. to Sussex University in order that it might be a part of the new television complex there and situated close to the new Institute for Overseas Development is likely to materialise.

This short debate on educational aid will be the first since the Ministry of Overseas Development has taken on the responsibility for Commonwealth education co-operation. It was, of course, previously the responsibility of the Department of Education and Science. I think that the arguments were very evenly balanced as to which Department was better able to look after this project. I know that some felt strongly that it would be better for it to remain with the Education Department because that was the Department with the greatest expertise in education. But the move is not one to which I object.

Although the Ministry has taken over a very large part of the responsibility for educational aid, however, it has not taken over all of it because perhaps the largest single contribution that we make towards the education of the developing countries is by means of the subsidy we give to the education of overseas students in this country. It is not always realised how large it is. It probably amounts to about £9 million a year. It is not always realised by overseas students who come here and perhaps pay their own fees or have them paid by their Governments that this amounts to only a fraction of the real cost of the education they receive.

I hope that, in time, the Ministry will begin to look comprehensively at the educational assistance we are giving to the developing countries. It would be hard to say whether the manner in which we are now spending this very substantial sum of money on educational assistance is the best way. I am simply posing questions today; I am not arguing a case. But it is by no means self-evident that there is no more effective way of spending £9 million than in subsidising in a fairly random fashion overseas students who happen to come to this country.

It may be that it would be better directed towards teacher training in the developing countries themselves. Certainly one is struck, in any discussions with those concerned with education in the developing countries, by the lack of really reliable information as to the relationship between education and economic development. The Indian Education Commission today is faced with the problem of trying to determine which set of educational priorities will yield the greatest economic return to India in the years immediately ahead.

Is it better to give high priority to primary education in the belief that this will change attitudes, particularly rural attitudes, and is likely to improve agricultural practice in the near future? Is it better to invest heavily in technical education, in higher education or in adult education of the more general kind, hoping to produce in the population as a whole an attitude that is more conducive to economic growth and the acceptance of modern techniques?

There is very little information on which the planners can go at the moment. I realise that some of these are problems to which there can be no very clear answer but I believe we ought, over the years, to try to gain more certain information and try to come to more definite ideas as to the relationship between economic development and various kinds of educational investment. I hope that now that the Ministry of Overseas Development is concerned with a large part of the educational assistance programme it will turn its attention to some of these questions.

I welcome the Order. I believe that the Commonwealth educational cooperation scheme has been one of the most successful post-war initiatives within the Commonwealth, that it has been of assistance to many developing countries in the Commonwealth, and that it has helped to forge links between those countries and ourselves and to maintain friendship among the very diverse countries which now go to make up the modern Commonwealth.

11.21 p.m.

Dame Joan Vickers (Plymouth, Devonport)

I welcome the fact that the Ministry of Overseas Development has taken over this work, because, being a new Department perhaps it will have fresh ideas and in addition will not have so much work on hand as the Department of Education and Science. I am glad to have the opportunity to speak in this debate, because I have recently been overseas and seen much of the work of various teachers in different countries. I should like to know first whether there are waiting lists of teachers or whether all the vacancies are filled, because I know that further demands will be made on the Ministry in the not-too-distant future.

I should like to pay a special tribute to the many people who are working overseas, some of them in very difficult conditions. In Aden I found two women teachers, one of them the head of a teacher-training college who was working with what I regarded as a United Nations of teachers. She had teachers from India and many other Commonwealth countries. Another woman was the headmistress of a girls' school many of whose pupils had been stopped from attending school by riots. In fact, young men had smashed the school's windows. These teachers were carrying on their work despite the difficulties and they were doing a first-class job.

I went also to Sabah. There are certain difficulties about Sabah to which I have drawn the hon. Gentleman's attention and I know that he is taking them up with the government concerned.

I went to Fiji where we have a number of people working and I pay tribute also to the New Zealand teachers there who are doing a first-class job.

From there I went to Tonga which, while not within the Commonwealth, comes under the scheme. There is an excellent head of the teacher training college there, but he will need further assistance, which I hope to have the opportunity to discuss at another time, with equipment and so on if he is to do his job as enthusiastically as he wishes.

Another excellent scheme to which we have sent a teacher is the South Pacific Community Training Centre. This is one of the most interesting things I have seen. Young girls come from all the small Pacific islands and learn domestic work, needle work, first aid and general housecraft as well as receiving further education. I hope that the hon. Gentleman will be able to see that this scheme is well supported, because when these girls go back to their small Pacific islands they are an enormous asset to the island communities.

In their communiqué of 17th May, 1960, the Commonwealth Prime Ministers said that 'they trusted that employers in Commonwealth countries—whether Governments, statutory bodies or private companies—would be ready, wherever possible, to encourage members of their staffs to undertake a period of public service abroad and would do their best to ensure that their prospects in their home countries would not thereby be prejudiced I should be grateful if the hon. Gentleman could tell us whether there is full cooperation and whether teachers are able to return to their jobs and also get their pensions and superannuation carried on. I met several young women, one in New Zealand, who were having to return to their jobs in this country rather more quickly than was perhaps wise because of superannuation, retaining their jobs here and probably not getting promotion if they stayed abroad too long. I should like to know how the scheme is working.

I should also like to know about extra money for salaries. I quote from the speech I made on 17th May, 1960, in which I said that a report of the Commonwealth Educational Conference stated: It became evident that there is considerable variation in the recognition given by different countries for service abroad. Some countries give only partial credit: e.g. two increments for three years' service. The Committee sees little justification for giving less than full credit for relevant service."—[OFFICIAL REPORT, 17th May, 1960; Vol. 623, c. 1174.] I should be grateful if the hon. Gentleman would let us know if these difficulties have been ironed out and if his Ministry has been able to get satisfactory conditions in the various countries to which we send our teachers.

The reason why I welcome their scheme is that I think that if we are to get peace in the world and settle unrest it is essential to get an educated population. With an uneducated population it is all too easy to put over all forms of propaganda by poster, wireless and so it is essential that people can themselves read and write and assimilate knowledge.

I should like to know how the National Council for the Supply of Teachers Overseas is working, and the placing of bursars through the Commonwealth Relations Office, the Colonial Office and the British Council. I understand that all three have a hand in placings. Is there overlapping between these bodies? How do various teachers know to whom to turn for full knowledge and information about the organisation and or country to which they should go? This is very important. Especially in my visits abroad I have seen a great improvement in the work of the British Council. I have been very much impressed by the standards of its officers and the work which its officials are doing overseas.

Mr. Deputy Speaker (Sir Samuel Storey)

Order. The hon. Lady is getting away from the Order we are discussing.

Dame Joan Vickers

I am sorry, Mr. Deputy Speaker, but the British Council provides some of the people who are supervising the teachers and this was mentioned—I looked it up carefully in HANSARD—under the Act. They are one of the organisations which looks after teachers when they arrive in this country or when teachers go overseas from this country.

Does the money which is being voted tonight include the pre-training of teachers concerning the countries to which they are to go or, if they are coming here, about our country? This point was raised—the need to have pre-training of teachers who went overseas.

Section 1 (l,a) of the Act refers to bursars coming from overseas who are not actually Commonwealth citizens. Have such persons taken advantage of this scheme? Have teachers from Tonga, who are not actually within the Commonwealth, although we have a treaty with that country, been able to come here under the scheme? What proportion of women are in the scheme? In what numbers are women teachers going overseas, or is it mostly men who go? If the Parliamentary Secretary can give the numbers, I shall be grateful.

I support what my hon. Friend the Member for Lewisham, North (Mr. Chataway) said about the teaching of English. One finds that although a great number of teachers teach English, it is not the English as we speak it in this country. I am referring not to New Zealanders, who, I know, have a different accent, but to people who might be recruited, for example, from Sweden or Holland, who speak good English, but not as we speak it in this country.

What facilities exist for teachers of the blind? It would be unfair, without notice, to ask the Parliamentary Secretary to give the number of teachers of the blind who are sent overseas, but I should like him to bear in mind the new system for teaching blind children. In many Commonwealth countries, instead of having separate homes for the blind, blind children are integrated in the sighted children's schools. This is working extremely well, for example, in Nigeria. What facilities are given to teachers who may be going to these countries to obtain knowledge of these methods of teaching the blind before they go overseas?

I refer next to the teaching of the deaf. I believe that Manchester is recognised as being the outstanding university for the teaching of teachers for the deaf, but there do not seem to be enough vacancies to meet the demand. In my recent trip overseas, I found that this was a type of education that we need to look into.

Hitherto, deaf children have often been considered not to be mentally sound. As they could make only sounds, because they were unable to hear, they were considered not to have any intellect. Recently, I am glad to say, that attitude has been contradicted. When I was in Singapore and visited the excellent school there for the deaf, I found that several hundred children under the age of 14 were registered as deaf. In some instances, there were as many as five in one family. I should like to know how many teachers in this category of teaching are included in the number who are being sent overseas.

How many teachers who go overseas are encouraged to study the Pitman method of teaching English? I have been very interested recently in a book which has been presented to me, which was specially illustrated for African children, showing how much easier it is to teach children English with the Pitman method of spelling. Are the teachers who go overseas encouraged to become familiar with this before they go?

I agree with my hon. Friend the Member for Lewisham, North that economic aid is wasted unless people are sufficiently trained and educated to make the best use of it. Education can help to reduce poverty, and it is the only satisfactory method of raising the standards of the people in this very technical world in which we live. Even farmers need now to be taught how to make the best use of their land. Thus, by sending teachers overseas we are doing an excellent job, and it is one in which every encouragement should be given.

The extra money which is now being made available is welcome. Nobody will grudge money being spent on teachers, because they are the best form of insurance to achieve a prosperous and more peaceful world. It is well recognised that no emergent nation can attain a standard of efficiency unless at least 4 per cent. of the population of each generation has a secondary educational standard.

It is for these reasons that I particularly welcome this Measure tonight. I hope that during the coming year the Parliamentary Secretary may have time to consider some of the points which I have raised and that when teachers are sent overseas some of the qualifications which I have suggested might be included in their curriculum. I would like on this occasion to pay a special tribute to those I happened to meet during my recent tour for the really excellent work they are doing.

11.35 p.m.

Colonel Sir Harwood Harrison (Eye)

I, too, welcome this aid to education. All of us who travel about the Commonwealth, as does my hon. Friend the Member for Plymouth, Devonport (Dame Joan Vickers), know how important it is. Very shortly, I make just three points.

First, I would underline what my hon. Friend the Member for Lewisham, North (Mr. Chataway) said about education for agriculture. This is very near my heart, and I stress it wherever I go in the Commonwealth, and I do so particularly because of the big increase in population in those countries. However much urbanisation there may be, and however much manufactures increase, there will still be at least as many, if not more, people earning their livings on the land, and if they do not learn modern methods of doing it, there will be little hope of their living standards being bettered. We in this country learned this lesson some hundreds of years ago.

Secondly, the present Minister of Overseas Development, when Secretary of State for the Colonies, last summer very kindly invited me to visit St. Helena. There are only 4,500 people there. We considered education there very carefully. They occasionally send a teacher to this country. After a course here, usually for three years, the teacher has to fulfil the undertaking to go back to St. Helena and teach for a year there. The trouble is that wages there are very much lower than they are in this country, and the teacher knows that, if he can save his passage money, he can come back here and provided of course, that he has the necessary qualifications, be welcomed by any of our education authorities in any of our counties or cities. Much as we would welcome him here, I am certain he would be even more useful in his own country. I believe that wages and salaries there have been increased since the right hon. Gentleman left the Colonial Office, and that may help to avoid this sort of situation arising. I am sure it applies not only to St. Helena but to other parts of the Commonwealth, too.

Thirdly, can the hon. Gentleman give an assurance that, whatever has happened about money and grants for teachers and students, and despite what has happened over the last three months in Rhodesia, there is no intention of discrimination in Rhodesia in this particular field of education in the coming months?

11.37 p.m.

Mr. Oram

I very much welcome the tone of the contributions which we have had from the other side of the House, and the welcome they have expressed for this Order. In a short time a vast number of questions have been asked. Of some of them I have had notice, and I am grateful for that; there have been others of which I have not had notice. I shall do my best to answer as many as I can. I am sure that, at this late hour, the House would not wish me to go into too great detail.

I begin with a point raised by the hon. Member for Lewisham, North (Mr. Chataway). It is true, as he says, that there has been a slower build-up in expenditure under the Act than was anticipated, but the hon. Gentleman will have gathered from my opening statement that it is anticipated that in the next two years considerably increased expenditure will take place, and I am sure that both of us welcome this.

There were specific questions he asked about progress. On Aid for Commonwealth English, I can report that we are up to schedule. The original 30 A.C.E. posts have been filled; people are in those posts; and the new batch of six, the first contingent of a further 30, are at present under training. The hon. Gentleman asked about progress under the Commonwealth Teacher Training Bursary Scheme, with regard to the additional places mentioned at the Ottawa Conference. Here again I can report good progress. Half of the additional 100 bursaries have been taken up in placings for the current academic year. It is hoped that the additional number will be filled by October, 1966.

Study and serve has not got off to as good a start as we might have wished but the signs are not unpromising. In the first two years some 150 places have been taken up at Makerere College. This means that if we are to fulfil the 1,000 places which he rightly says was the original hope, the next few years will have to see a stepping up in the pace. We have some hope that as the scheme gets under way our target will not be too unrealistic.

The hon. Gentleman also asked about capital expenditure, and about the overall £5 million announced at the Ottawa Conference. This does not fall under the financial provisions of this Order, but the hon. Gentleman is right in thinking that the present level is about £3 million plus. He complains that it is not easy to find out what these amounts are, that he needs to look around under various headings to get the total. We are considering whether some form of exposition of the amounts in a more convenient way might be possible.

He made a valuable point about the danger of the high cost per student place. I agree that this is something which needs watching. He will recognise that with a new institution, a comparatively small number of students are coming in in the early years and per capita costs sound higher than they will be when greater intakes of students are possible. We are keeping our eye on this and are willing, whenever possible, to provide technical assistance to make sure costs are kept as low as possible.

Mr. Chataway

Before the hon. Gentleman leaves capital aid for higher education—the British Government made an offer, which I understood had the support of the Opposition, that capital aid to higher education would be increased to an average of £5 million a year over the five years starting 1965–66. The Government have not been able to fulfil that target. Is it now the intention to raise it to £5 million a year in 1966–67?

Mr. Oram

This is an average over a period of five years. I should not like to say that in the next year it would necessarily reach £5 million. The hon. Gentleman will be aware of certain offers we have made in respect of universities in Malawi, Zambia, British Guiana and elsewhere. This kind of offer, when it is taken up, will increase the amount of expenditure. The average over the period may reach the £5 million mentioned.

I was about to refer to the point about the Centre for Educational Television Overseas. The hon. Gentleman is probably aware that our Ministry has had discussions with representatives of the scheme about the amount of the grant. He is right in thinking that it is to be £40,000 in the next two succeeding years, and we look forward to the possibility of increasing it in future years.

We are aware of the Centre's hopes to go to Brighton. I have a personal interest, since I live in that town, that that development should take place. But we are not able at present to promise that those facilities can be made available to it. However, it is an interesting possibility that we are hopeful of fulfilling one day.

I am grateful to the hon. Member for Plymouth, Devonport (Dame Joan Vickers) for the various examples that she gave from her own travels, particularly in South-East Asia. I am glad that she recognises the value of the work that has been financed under the various schemes.

I share with her the tribute that she paid to teachers from other Commonwealth countries, such as New Zealand. Some years ago I saw in Borneo the valuable work which New Zealand teachers were doing. So I am glad to have an opportunity of paying tribute to the work in developing Commonwealth countries of not only our own people but of those from other Commonwealth Countries.

She asked whether we are able to fill all the vacancies for teachers. I should not like to say that we are able to do that because, as she knows, the demand for teachers is tremendous. But we are reasonably happy with the number of teachers coming forward who are prepared to do a period of service overseas. The last year's figures reached 1,000, and we are increasingly interesting teachers in the work.

She quoted from the Conference communiqué the important hope that employers would recognise more and more the value of overseas service. This is most important. I can say that local education authorities are coming to recognise that a teacher who goes overseas for a period is a more valuable teacher in our own educational system on returning than one without such experience.

There may still be some difficulties about superannuation and so on, but there is a code of secondment which covers this sort of problem, and more and more local education authorities are operating the code. It was drawn up by the body to which the hon. Lady referred, the Council for the Supply of Teachers Overseas, and these are satisfactory dvelopments.

I am afraid that I have not got answers to some of her detailed questions. I have no figures of the number of women teachers, for instance, but it is plain from groups of potential recruits that women form a good proportion of those who are going overseas. I think that she can be satisfied with progress in that respect.

Then she referred to the Pitman system—the Initial Teaching Alphabet. Again, I cannot say how many teachers are qualified in the technique, but the hon. Lady will be interested to know that my Ministry is supporting a very useful experimental scheme, in conjunction with the University of Ibadan in Nigeria, into the effectiveness of the system in the teaching of English as a second language. The hon. Lady can be assured that we have it very much in mind.

The hon. and gallant Member for Eye (Sir H. Harrison) asked a number of questions, and the one with which he opened was the need for education in agriculture. I share the hon. and gallant Gentleman's view that development in agriculture in developing countries is most important. These countries have a thirst for industrialisation, but it is true that however rapid it may be, many millions of their people are peasants, and will go on being peasants for the rest of their lives. We should not, therefore, put all our eggs in the basket of industrialisation, and our Ministry is fully cognisant of the importance of agriculture.

I know that I have not answered all the points which have been raised by the three hon. Members, but I hope that I have been able to give some additional information of interest to them. I share the view, which has been expressed strongly, that the money provided under the Act, and now to be provided increasingly under this Order, is money very well spent for a very good cause.

Sir H. Harrison

Can the hon. Gentleman comment on what I said about Rhodesia? If he cannot reply now, will he write to me on the subject?

Mr. Oram

I think that it would be better if I read what the hon. Gentleman said and then wrote to him, and this I undertake to do.

Question put and agreed to.

Resolved, That the Commonwealth Teachers (Extension of Financial Authority) Order, 1965, a draft of which was laid before this House on 26th November, be approved.