HC Deb 21 December 1966 vol 738 cc1406-8
31. Mr. Wylie

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland how many prisoners serving life sentences for convictions of murder have been released in the last two years; what were the periods of imprisonment served in each case; and how many were released contrary to the recommendation of the trial judge.

Mr. Ross

One life sentence prisoner was released last autumn after serving nine years. The trial judge was not available. The Lord Justice General expressed the view that the prisoner should be detained for a longer period.

Mr. Wylie

Does the Secretary of State agree that in the new climate set by the Murder (Abolition of Death Penalty) Act it is more than ever important to have the closest regard to the views of the judiciary before taking administrative action in this field?

Mr. Ross

This is not administrative action. This is the statutory obligation of the Secretary of State. I should not like anyone to think that any decision in respect of this is taken by any civil servant. It is taken by the Secretary of State. I should not like anyone to assume that because in this case I did not agree with the trial judge, that is always the situation. It would be quite wrong to jump to that conclusion.

Mr. Doig

Does the Secretary of State agree that releasing a person convicted of murder after nine years can cause very great anomalies, bearing in mind that people charged with lesser crimes, such as manslaughter and the mail train robbery, can get far longer sentences and may have to serve them?

Mr. Ross

I think that the mail train robbery aspect of this problem is slightly irrelevant. That was very exceptional indeed. But I, as Secretary of State, certainly take into account the question of sentencing in respect of more related crimes. This is one of the things which is taken into account.

32. Mr. Wylie

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland to what extent it is a general practice in Scotland to release persons convicted of murder and sentenced to life imprisonment after a period of between eight and nine years; and if he is satisfied with this practice.

Mr. Ross

There is no such general practice. Each case is considered individually on principles that have been explained in the House on previous occasions. Release is on licence; and the person released is liable to recall, if necessary, as long as he lives.

Mr. Wylie

Although it may not be the general practice, is it not the case that in the ordinary way the release on licence of a person convicted of murder normally takes place after eight or nine years? If that is the case, is it not quite illogical that it should be so when the judiciary have expressed the view that in certain circumstances for the much lesser crime of culpable homicide a person convicted may be sentenced to 15 years imprison- ment, of which ten years will normally be served?

Mr. Ross

It is very wrong, certainly in Scotland, where I have certain knowledge, to talk about what "normally" happens. The last Answer that I gave showed that one person had been released in two years. In the last six years, which covers three Secretaries of State—and I am sure that they all took the same responsible attitude as I take in this matter—the number of people released has been three. It is very wrong to start talking about general principles on that kind of basis. Each case is dealt with individually on its merits. It would be wrong to give the impression to anybody that automatically after a certain number of years anyone is released. As a matter of fact, there is certainly one case that would distort the average in relation to the last two years if we started to consider averages. There is one person in a Scottish prison who was sentenced to life imprisonment and who has been there for 11½ years.

Mr. Dewar

Will the Secretary of State clear up the position and assure me that there is continuity of policy over the last few years and that the average sentence served in the late 1950's and early 1960's by persons convicted of murder and released on licence is very similar to that at the present time?

Mr. Ross

If anyone wishes to work on this average business—which I deplore, because it is misleading—the position is that at the present time such prisoners tend to be kept in longer.