HC Deb 15 December 1966 vol 738 cc645-7
26. Mr. St. John-Stevas

asked the Secretary of State for Education and Science what plans he has in hand for additional building programmes for the provision of comprehensive schools following the response of local authorities to Circular 1065.

Mr. Crosland

I would refer the hon. Member to the Answer I gave to my hon. Friend the Member for Ealing, North (Mr. Molloy) on 3rd November.—[Vol. 735, c. 641.]

Mr. St. John-Stevas

In those circumstances, is it not inevitable that the authorities will put forward botched-up and sham schemes, and if no extra money is available, would it not be better to concentrate on improving existing schools and securing the services of more teachers?

Mr. Crosland

As the hon. Gentleman must know if he has attended Question Time on educational matters or educational debates, the latter part of his supplementary question refers to exactly what we are trying to do. That is where the money is being concentrated As to the first part, it is perfectly true that the existing stock of buildings imposes a limitation on the speed at which schools can go comprehensive, but we have to face the fact that we are suffering from the legacy of the previous Government—[Interruption.]—having approved hundreds, even thousands, of inadequately-sized secondary modern schools.

Mr. Molloy

Will my right hon. Friend appreciate that the point he made in his reply to me was well taken and well understood? Will he acknowledge, further, that there will certainly be no botched-up or sham schemes in the Borough of Ealing, which may very well disappoint the hon. Member for Chelmsford (Mr. St. John-Stevas)?

Mr. Hornby

Will the Secretary of State give an assurance that, whatever plans he may have for secondary schools, he will not divert resources from the primary schools which, in view of the size of the age groups coming along in the next five years, constitute far and away the biggest problem?

Mr. Crosland

The hon. Gentleman knows perfectly well that I must have given this assurance at least 50 times in the last 12 months, but I am quite happy to give it for the 51st time this afternoon. As to approving botched-up schemes, to which his hon. Friend the Member for Chelmsford (Mr. St. John-Stevas) referred, if the hon. Member has read this morning's newspapers, I am sure that he will be completely satisfied that we will not, in any circumstances, approve schemes we do not think satisfactory.

Mr. Hugh Fraser

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that in Stafford, as far as comprehensive schools are concerned, he is himself regarded as the arch botcher?

Mr. Crosland

One of the agreeable features of our educational scene in the last few months has been the fact that the right hon. Gentleman has been in the forefront as one of our most fanatical supporters of comprehensive reorganisation, for which I am extremely grateful.