HC Deb 12 December 1966 vol 738 cc1-4
1. Mr. Biffen

asked the Minister of Labour what numbers and percentage of the total of those registering as unemployed since 20th July are classified under the combined Orders VI, VII, VIII, and X; and what numbers and percentage of the total have been placed in employment classified under these orders.

The Parliamentary Secretary to the Ministry of Labour (Mrs. Shirley Williams)

We do not compile statistics giving an industrial analysis of persons coming on to the unemployed registers. However, what I can give is the increase, between the July and November counts, in the number of persons registered as wholly unemployed who were last employed in the specified group of industries. The increase was 23,099, or 12.8 per cent. of the increase in the total num- ber of wholly unemployed. Placings in this group of industries between July and November totalled 112,412, or 16.1 per cent. of all placings.

Mr. Biffen

Is it not extraordinary that the information I have requested is not kept in that form, since one of the purposes of the policy is to redeploy towards those companies engaged in export activities, in view of the fact that the Orders referred to cover about 50 per cent. of our total exports as indicated by an Answer given by the Board of Trade?

Mrs. Williams

The hon. Gentleman is correct in the industries he has indicated. I suggest that the figures of placings give us a fairly clear view of where unemployed labour is going.

2. Mr. Biffen

asked the Minister of Labour in view of the shortage of sheet metal workers, tool makers, fitters, turners, machine tool-setter operators and welders referred to in the recent report of the Economic Development Committee for Mechanical Engineering, how many in these trades have become redundant or have registered as unemployed since 20th July; and if he will make a statement.

Mrs. Shirley Williams

Statistics are not available of the number of workers in particular occupations becoming redundant or coming on to the unemployed registers.

Mr. Biffen

Since the whole purposes of the measures of 20th July were, in the words of the Lord President of the Council, to be calculated, is it not about time that statistical figures of this order were collected? How on earth can we judge whether the policy is succeeding?

Mrs. Williams

The difficulty is the form in which the hon. Gentleman has asked his Question. I can reply in part by telling him that the pressure of demand in the six months in which he is interested has eased appreciably since July. For instance, although there are seven vacancies for every one turner unemployed and five vacancies for every machine tool operator or machine tool setter unemployed, in the other four occupations he has indicated the position has very considerably eased since July.

Sir K. Joseph

Will not the hon. Lady agree that that is largely because the Government's measures have reduced demand rather than increased supply?

Mrs. Williams

I think it would be fair to say that in a number of cases the demand has decreased, as the right hon. Gentleman suggests, but I would point to the fact that there has been, and is increasingly being, some increase in supply of skilled workers under the industrial training boards' schemes and under the Government's own schemes.

Mr. Manuel

Would my hon. Friend agree, arising from the supplementary question asked by the hon. Member for Oswestry (Mr. Biffen), that it would be extremely difficult to give firm figures because of the number in these trades who are temporarily unemployed and because the figure alters almost weekly?

Mrs. Williams

That is correct. Further, many vacancies are not notified to the Ministry of Labour's employment exchanges, because they go through other channels.

Sir K. Joseph

The hon. Lady has volunteered some information. She says that more people are now available in these particular trades as a result of the Industrial Training Act. Would she be willing to give evidence of this in answer to a Question later?

Mrs. Williams

That is a little unfair. I said that the increase in the supply of trained men would be likely to add to the supply. I point to the fact that there has been some increase in the number of classes in these particular occupations—for example, in Government training centres.

3. Mr. Ridley

asked the Minister of Labour how many skilled men are still required in engineering; and what is the annual output of such skilled engineers from Government training centres.

Mrs. Shirley Williams

I cannot give precise figures of unsatisfied demands for labour, but many skilled engineering occupations are still in generally short supply. Government training centres are at present capable of producing annually some 5,500 trained men in engineering trades.

Mr. Ridley

Would not the hon. Lady agree that 5,500 skilled engineers will go nowhere towards meeting the greatest of all the shortages of employment? Surely she would agree that we must have better arrangements for training more of the people of whom we are short?

Mrs. Williams

Yes, Sir. By the end of 1967, on current plans, the number of trained people available should jump from 5,500 to 6,900 and by the middle of 1968 or by late 1968 to 7,800. In addition, the supply of full-time first-year training places under the Engineering Industry Training Board has jumped in one year from 14,000 in 1965–66 to 24,000 in the current year. That is part of the answer to the hon. Gentleman.