New Clause.—(PROCEDURAL RULES FOR CERTAIN TRIBUNALS.) (Hansard, 5 December 1966)

§ The Attorney-General (Sir Elwyn Jones)
I beg to move, That the Clause be read a Second time.
It might be convenient. Mr. Deputy Speaker, if, with this new Clause, we also discussed new Clause 5.

§ Mr. Deputy Speaker (Sir Eric Fletcher)
With the leave of the House, I think that new Clause 5 could conveniently be considered with this new Clause.

§ Sir John Hobson (Warwick and Leamington)
On a point of order. The Notice Paper which I have obtained from the Table of the House contains only the new Clause moved by the right hon. and learned Gentleman and no new Clause 5. I find it difficult to understand how we are to take the two together.

§ Mr. Deputy Speaker
I think that the Attorney-General was referring to Amendment No. 5 rather than new Clause 5.

§ Mr. R. J. Maxwell-Hyslop (Tiverton)
On a point of order. Could you please explain what is happening, Mr. Deputy Speaker?

§ Mr. Deputy Speaker
The Attorney-General wishes to take Amendment No. 5 with the new Clause. That can be done only with the consent of the House.

§ Mr. Maxwell-Hyslop
Further to my point of order. I understood from the notice posted in the Members' Lobby 1026 that the Prime Minister was to make a statement at 7 o'clock.

Hon. Members
Approximately.

§ Mr. Maxwell-Hyslop
Is it by reason of the rules of the House that we must go through all this legislation first; in other words, can we take our time over this or is it because the statement is not ready to be made?

§ Mr. Deputy Speaker
We are proceeding with the Orders of the Day.

§ The Attorney-General
In moving the new Clause, with which we are discussing Amendment No. 5, I need not detain the House for long.
Section 8 of the Tribunals and Inquiries Act, 1958, puts Ministers—and, in Scotland, the Lord President of the Court of Session—under a duty to consult the Council on Tribunals before making or approving procedural rules for any of the tribunals listed in the First Schedule to the Act. It has come to the Government's notice that the Board of Inland Revenue is not under this duty. This is because Section 8 refers to "Minister" and this expression is defined by Section 14(1) of the Act as including … any Board presided over by a Minister …". That expression is not wide enough to include the Inland Revenue.
It seems possible that at the time the Bill which became the 1958 Act was in draft it was not thought likely that the Inland Revenue would have to make any such procedural rules as are contemplated by Section 8. However that may be, there seems no good reason why the Inland Revenue should not be in the same position as other Government Departments, and these proposed alterations will achieve that end.

§ Mr. Ian Percival (Southport)
So far, this evening is one of disappointment. I thought, when the Bill was called for debate how gratifying it was to see so full a House to consider it, even at this late stage. It is disappointing that at least a few hon. Members were not here for this purpose alone. And then my joy was complete when the Attorney-General rose and said that he proposed to move the two new Clauses together, remembering that the only other new Clause on the 1027 Notice Paper is that standing in the names of my right hon. and learned Friends and myself. I thought at the time that that was too good to be true.
However, depite these disappointments, I am pleased to tell the House that we welcome the new Clause, because it does, as far as it goes, extend and widen the ambit of consultation necessary in certain cases of the work to which the Bill refers. Later, I will venture to express the hope that the ambit of consultation in certain matters relevant to the Bill should be extended so as to include this House, but I would be out of order in venturing that far at this stage.