§ Mr. SpeakerI think at this stage I might announce the times as modified by the interruption. This debate will end at latest at 12.36 p.m. The next one should end at 1.21 p.m., the third at 2.6 p.m., the fourth at six minutes past Three, the fifth at 3.51 p.m. and the sixth at 4.51 p.m. I hope that hon. Members will keep as closely as possible to their times.
I believe the right hon. Member for Kettering (Sir G. de Frietas) was in the midst of asking a question.
§ 12.10 p.m.
§ Sir G. de FreitasBefore the House went to the other place, Mr. Speaker, I was pointing out to my hon. Friend that in Europe are concentrated most of the rich countries and, as such, they have a particular duty to the rest of the countries of the world.
§ Mrs. WhiteI am sure that we would all accept that. It was just that I had some apprehension that my hon. Friend was suggesting some rather more narrow co-ordination of European effort in the United Nations. I am glad to know that I was mistaken.
On another very important aspect of the work which concerns East-West cooperation, we need to exercise a good deal of care and a little caution. I was interested to see that as rapporteur for the appropriate committee, my hon. Friend the Member for Coventry, North recorded the conclusion of the committee that the Council of Europe should not attempt to open a political dialogue with Eastern Europe, but should provide a channel through which Eastern European countries which so wish can co-operate with member Governments of the Council of Europe in technical, non-political fields. We would entirely agree with that view We are very much in favour of technical and cultural co-operation, wherever this is possible.
On the political plane, although it is quite true that the Secretary-General of the United Nations, U Thant, indicated that things happily are not as difficult as they were when the Council of Europe was inaugurated, nevertheless one should proceed by slow stages. I know that 2033 there are discussions, for example, in the Inter-Parliamentary Union on this matter of co-operation between Parliamentarians of Eastern and Western Europe. This is all to the good. There have been discussions also in other quarters.
One should be clear that, in its present form, the Assembly of the Council of Europe is a constructive, deliberative forum. The last thing any of us would want would be to turn it into a battlefield where one would feel obliged to concentrate one's energies on firing propaganda shots. We do not want that to happen. On the other hand, we recognise that, happily, there is some easing of tension between East and West Europe, and we would certainly be very much interested to see what results from any considerations that are given to this problem.
I repeat that on the cultural side and on the technical side there are a number of ways in which very fruitful co-operation between Eastern and Western Europe may very well be encouraged.
There was one small point which was made with great force by the hon. Member for Leicester, South East on, as he called it, the bread-and-butter issue. Perhaps he was thinking of rather more elaborate food and drink. We will have another look at this, but the hon. Gentleman will, I am sure, appreciate that the present time is not perhaps the most auspicious for suggesting greater expenditure on entertainment or on other things. However, I take his point and we will have a look at it.
§ Mrs. WhiteWe have taken the hon. Gentleman's point. We will have a look at it, but as I am sure he will appreciate, without any sort of commitment.
2034 As you, Mr. Speaker, rightly reminded us, this debate is primarily about the Council of Europe rather than about the Common Market. We should welcome it because it is about the Council of Europe. Other opportunities for discussing the Common Market arise in the course of our deliberations, but it is seldom that we have a chance to discuss the Council of Europe.
Nevertheless, we cannot discuss the Council of Europe without having in our minds the wider considerations. Valuable as the work of the Council of Europe is, as my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs pointed out in his speech to the Socialist International Conference in Stockholm last May, we must recognise that the various co-operative activities carried out by different organisations, of which the Council of Europe is a very important one, are not a substitute for the wider European community for which we are working; because for Europe, I think, whether we are supranationalists, or whether we take a different view of the best association for Europe, most of us feel that an association is our ultimate aim. We are all Europeans in that sense.
Meanwhile, while the very real difficulties which have to be overcome before that ultimate aim can be realised are being worked on, there is no doubt that the opportunities provided by the Council of Europe for Members of Parliament to work together and to obtain closer understanding of the forms of government and patterns of thought in their countries should not be neglected. They should be encouraged. They should be nurtured.
We are grateful to those of our colleagues in the House who do this and we wish them well. We are very grateful to have had this chance of expressing the very warm interest of the Government in their labours.