Liner Trains

HC Deb 10 August 1966 vol 733 cc1677-9

5. Sir Cyril Osborne

asked the Minister of Transport what action she now proposes to take following the rejection by the Transport and General Workers' Union of her proposals to work the liner trains on which millions of pounds have been spent; to what extent this capital expenditure has been wasted; whether she will continue to pursue her policy; and if she will make a statement.

9. Mr. Webster

asked the Minister of Transport what progress has been made to further the development of freight liner train services on the basis of open terminals.

18 and 19. Mr. Awdry

asked the Minister of Transport (1) what steps she will now take to implement Her Majesty's Government's policy on liner train terminals;

(2) whether it is her policy to authorise the expenditure of further sums of money on the liner train scheme, in view of the failure to secure open terminals.

Mrs. Castle

The Transport and General Workers Union has not rejected the freight liner proposals, and I am hopeful that the scope of the traffic available to these services will be progressively extended as a result of discussions which are still in progress. None of the capital already invested has been wasted: I shall take future investment decisions in the light of the situation at the time.

Sir C. Osborne

If the union has not rejected liner trains, why have its members not worked them? If refusing to work them is not refusing to accept the proposal, what is it? As the taxpayer subsidises the railways to the extent of £130 million a year, will the right hon. Lady reconsider this subsidy in the light of this obstinate refusal to use modern machinery?

Mrs. Castle

The Transport and General Workers Union has asked for the same guarantees for its members against redundancy and loss of earnings as have been given by the Railways Board to the N.U.R. Those guarantees are now being negotiated. When the negotiations are complete, there will be an extension of the use of these terminals until we move to the full open terminal.

Mr. Webster

In view of the absolute necessity, if the system is to be worked properly, to have open terminals, and in the light of the Prime Minister's statement on 20th July when he spoke about the Government's determination to do this, cannot we yet go beyond a pious hope?

Mrs. Castle

It is not a matter of pious hope. These are concrete negotiations. It is certainly by determination that the terminals shall be fully used on an open basis, because I want to see the whole railway system used more extensively, in the interests of railway-men themselves.

Mr. Adwry

Is it not disgraceful that the modernisation of Britain should be held up by trade union obstruction?

Mrs. Castle

All sides of industry like certain guarantees when they are asked to press forward towards modernisation, and the trade unions have as much right to them as anyone else.

Mr. Manuel

Will my right hon. Friend take it that we on this side are extremely anxious to see our railways used to their utmost capacity, and we believe that railwaymen of all grades should encourage traders to send as much of their goods as they can by rail? Further, will she take it that there is a great deal of good will on this side for an early conclusion to the necessary negotiations to which she has referred?

Mrs. Castle

I entirely accept what my hon. Friend says, and I am confident that the negotiations will come to a successful conclusion very shortly.

Mr. Fortescue

When I asked the hon. Lady a similar question about a fortnight ago about when these negotiations would be concluded, she replied with the terse word "soon". Will she be a little less terse today?

Mrs. Castle

No, Sir. The word "soon" is an excellent one to sum up the situation.

Mr. Peter Walker

The right hon. Lady has been using the word "soon" on this topic ever since she became Minister, and what she now describes as concrete negotiations have been going on for 18 months, with tremendous loss to the railways and great slowing down of the expansion of this essential programme. When will there be action instead of words?

Mrs. Castle

These negotiations have not been going on for months. The initial negotiations were with the N.U.R., which recently agreed to extend its policy. It now remains to satisfy the Transport and General Workers Union, many of whose members are long-distance lorry drivers, that its members' interests will not suffer if they are encouraged to accept transfer of some of their traffic from road to rail. It is these negotiations which are now in progress.

Mr. Webster

In view of the unsatisfactory nature of the replies, I beg to give notice that I shall seek an early opportunity to raise the matter on the Adjournment.