HC Deb 10 August 1966 vol 733 cc1698-701
35. Mr. Winnick

The Lord President of the Council and Leader of the House of Commons (Mr. Herbert Bowden)

The accommodation for visitors could not be increased without either rebuilding or taking over some or all of the space in the Members' side galleries or by using the Reporter's Gallery.

Mr. Winnick

Would not the Lord President agree that special accommodation is totally and completely inadequate and that each day there are large queues of people outside the House unsuccessfully trying to get in? Could he look at some of the side seats, reserved for Members of Parliament and see whether, instead of them remaining empty, they could be used by visitors?

Mr. Bowden

I accept that, particularly at this time of the year, there are large queues of people wanting to get into the Galleries of the House. The number of seats available to Members in the side galleries totals 91, whereas there are 292 seats available to strangers. The proposal of my hon. Friend could be implemented but I think that it would hardly meet with the approval of the House.

Sir G. Nabarro

Would the right hon. Gentleman bear in mind that a Select Committee of this House, reporting last Monday, 48 hours ago, strongly recommended closed circuit television, for the use of Members? Would it not be possible to make available an appropriate room in the Palace of Westminster to allow members of the general public to view the proceedings?

Mr. Bowden

The Report of the Select Committee on Broadcasting the Proceedings in the House, published at 2.30 p.m. today, makes a recommendation in this direction, in any future building which may take place. This follows a proposal made by Lord Stephen King-Hall in his day, some years ago. It could be looked at whenever new building takes place.

36. Sir J. Vaughan-Morgan

38 and 39. Sir Knox Cunningham

(2) if he will make a statement on the financial position of the catering department of the House of Commons; and whether prices for Members and their guests will be raised in order to balance the accounts.

Mr. Bowden

In 1965 the deficit incurred by the Refreshment Department was £10,226, of which £4,726 was the trading loss, the balance of £5,500 being a transfer to the Repairs and Renewals Account. In 1966 the deficit incurred up to 27th May was £18,985, a large part of which was due to the loss of business during the Dissolution and to the cost of wages and salaries during other periods when the House was not sitting. The Select Committee on House of Commons (Services) is considering ways and means of meeting these losses. It seems inevitable, however, that prices will eventually have to be increased but the timing and amount of any increases are still under examination.

Sir J. Vaughan-Morgan

Can the right hon. Gentleman give an assurance that the extra burden of Selective Employment Tax will not be handed on to the taxpayer, in a manner which is not open to caterers outside this House?

Mr. Bowden

In the discussions and deliberations now taking place the intention is that the cost of S.E.T. which has to be borne by the catering department should be met by Members.

Sir Knox Cunningham

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that nowhere outside this House can one get such a meal at such a price? [Interruption.] Why should Members be in a particularly favourable position? It is surely right that we ought to pay more for meals here, and unless we do so how can the right hon. Gentleman ever see the Kitchen Committee being able to raise the wages of the staff?

Mr. Bowden

I have already said that there will have to be increases in the charges for meals. There may be substantial increases. I should like to make it absolutely clear that there is no question of Members' meals being subsidised by the public.

Mr. Blackburn

Can my right hon. Friend tell us whether the figures he has quoted cover the Press catering department, and, if not, can he give us that figure?

Mr. Bowden

They cover the whole of the activities of the catering department, which includes the Press Gallery.

37. Mr. Peter M. Jackson

Sir G. Wills

I have been asked to reply.

Notices are displayed in the Strangers' Dining Room and in the Strangers' Dining Room Annexe requesting that Members and their guests should refrain from smoking before 1.30 p.m. Members are requested by notice not to smoke in the north end of the Tea Room. Smoking in the Silence Room of the Library is also forbidden. The Accommodation and Housekeeping Sub-Committee of the Select Committee on House of Commons (Services) will look into the matter further.

Mr. Jackson

While thanking the right hon. Member for that reply, may I ask him to acknowledge that many non-smoking Members, on both sides of the House, will regard his Answer as being highly unsatisfactory? Will he further extend the provisions of nonsmoking, in particular to Members' desk rooms.

Sir G. Wills

We will, of course, take the hon. Member's views into consideration when further thought is given to this matter.

Mr. Shinwell

Is the hon. Gentleman aware that if non-smokers want accommodation they can always remain in this Chamber? Is he aware that what with non-smokers and abstainers this place is going to the dogs?

Sir G. Wills

As a smoker I have much sympathy with the right hon. Gentleman's view.