GIBRALTAR (Hansard, 9 August 1966)

§ Mr. Heath
Would this be the right moment, Mr. Speaker, to ask for authority to move the Adjournment of the House under Standing Order No. 9?
I beg to ask leave to move the Adjournment of the House under Standing Order No. 9 for the purpose of discussing a definite matter of urgent public importance, namely, the refusal of the Prime Minister to give the House an undertaking that British sovereignty over Gibraltar will not be diminished other than with the agreement of the people of Gibraltar. I would suggest that this is a specific matter, because nothing can be more specific than the matter of sovereignty, and in this particular case British sovereignty over Gibraltar; and that is of great importance to the House and to the people of this country. There can be no doubt about that. I would also suggest that it is urgent, because the negotiations or discussions are due to be resumed shortly, as the Foreign Secretary told the House yesterday, and as far as 1407 I can see there will be no further opportunity for the House, before it rises, to discuss this matter and be able to express its view in the Division Lobbies about it.
It might, of course, be possible to argue this policy as a reason why the House should not adjourn, when we debate the Motion for Adjournment for the Recess, or to ask for more time to discuss that Motion, but in neither case would it be possible for the House to express its view in the Division Lobbies about Government policy.
Therefore, I would suggest that this Motion stands on all the reasons required by Standing Order No. 9.

§ Mr. Speaker
The right hon. Gentleman asks leave to move the Adjournment of the House under Standing Order No. 9 for the purpose of discussing a definite matter of urgent public importance, namely, the refusal of the Prime Minister to give the House an undertaking that British sovereignty over Gibraltar will not be diminished other than with the agreement of the people of Gibraltar. I cannot thank the right hon. Gentleman for letting me know in advance that he intended to raise this matter, but I make no complaint about that in view of the circumstances which have arisen.
Among the rules governing acceptance or otherwise of an application under the Standing Order one is that if an ordinary Parliamentary opportunity would occur the Motion cannot be put to the House. The House will find numerous instances of this, and of the application of this rule, on page 365 of Erskine May. When debate on a Motion to adjourn for a Recess is coming before the House—as it is—an opportunity is provided for raising any matter of the administration for which the Government is responsible, and that provides an opportunity which prevents me from allowing the application to move the Adjournment under the Standing Order.

§ Mr. Heath
Of course, we accept your Ruling, Mr. Speaker, on the question of Standing Order No. 9, but may I, in this case, ask for your guidance? In debate on the Motion for the Adjournment for the Recess—all the time I have been a Member of the House it has been so—hon. Members are given opportunity to 1408 state reasons why the House should not adjourn, but in no case is it given an opportunity to argue the substance of a reason being put forward why the House should not adjourn.
Therefore, are we to understand that the rule is now to be changed and that we may have substantive debates on particular items on the Motion for the Adjournment, because that, in all my experience, would be completely different? In any case, we cannot decide upon one subject on a Motion for the Adjournment. As you are aware, Mr. Speaker, it covers a whole variety of subjects, and we could not distinguish Gibraltar from any other.

§ Mr. Speaker
There are two Motions for the Adjournment. One is that the House should adjourn, when the House decides whether it should adjourn. On that occasion, it is possible for right hon. and hon. Gentlemen to argue that it should not adjourn and bring forward important reasons why they think that it should not adjourn. That would be one opportunity to raise this matter. The other is during the ordinary Adjournment debates which take place after the House has come to a decision on the Motion for the Summer Adjournment.

§ Mr. Heath
Further to that point of order, Mr. Speaker. I think that you will agree that when there is an Adjournment on a Friday it is not possible for hon. Members to express in the Lobbies their collective view on the subject under debate. That was the point which I was trying to submit to you earlier. Therefore, the House can reach no decision on any of these matters.
As far as the Motion to adjourn for the Recess is concerned, may I ask for further guidance? Is it not a fact that one may not argue the substance of a question, but only bring forward reasons for the House to go on sitting so that, at a later date, it should have the opportunity to discuss the substance of the question? Is that not always the Ruling which has been given by your predecessors?

§ Mr. Speaker
The right hon. Gentleman is perfectly right. I understand that one of the reasons why he sought to raise this matter under Standing Order No. 9 was that he was not prepared for the House to adjourn until he got satisfaction from the Prime Minister 1409 about the point which he raised on Gibraltar. But he will have the opportunity to urge this on the Motion that the House do adjourn.

§ Mr. Woodburn
Further to that point of order, Mr. Speaker. Is it not the case that the House was sitting all night last night and that this matter could have been raised by the right hon. Gentleman at any time during the night?

§ Mr. Speaker
Order. That is a matter of argument, and not a point of order.

§ Mr. Heath
Further to that point of order, Mr. Speaker. Ought not the decision to be made absolutely clear——

§ Mr. Speaker
Order. I am being addressed by the right hon. Member for Bexley (Mr. Heath) on the point of order.

§ Mr. Heath
Ought not the position to be made absolutely clear that Gibraltar was one of the subjects notified to you for discussion on the Consolidated Fund Bill, but not reached because the Government closure of the debate?

Hon. Members
Oh.

§ Mr. Speaker
Order. Noise does not help Parliament at all.

§ Mr. Shinwell
With great respect, Mr. Speaker. The other day, when a similar Motion was sought to be moved, I think by an hon. Member opposite, you informed the House that having given your decision you would not listen to any argument. With respect, may I ask why you are listening to a hypothetical argument advanced by the right hon. Member for Bexley (Mr. Heath)?

§ Mr. Speaker
I think that the right hon. Member for Easington (Mr. Shinwell) wants to be fair. I did not understand the right hon. Member for Bexley to question my Ruling. What he was asking for was advice as to how he should proceed under the Ruling which I had given if he sought to raise the question of Gibraltar.

§ Mr. Shinwell
Is the right hon. Gentleman an apprentice, or something?

§ Mr. Paget
Mr. Speaker, the effect of your Ruling would appear to be that Standing Order No. 9 is inoperative for a certain period before the end of any Session. Could you tell us for how long a period Standing Order No. 9 is inoperative before the end of a Session?

§ Mr. Speaker
The hon. and learned Member for Northampton (Mr. Paget) is now generalising. I am not prepared to give a generalised ruling about the opportuneness or otherwise of attempts to raise a matter under Standing Order No. 9.

§ Mr. Speaker
Order.