HC Deb 27 October 1965 vol 718 cc141-3
24 and 25. Mr. Gibson-Watt

asked the Postmaster-General (1) what methods are used by his Department to discover evasion; of payment of television licences;

(2) how many evasions of payment of television licences his Department recorded in 1964.

Mr. Bean

The methods used to detect evasion are: by inquiry, conducted by post and followed up if necessary by personal inquiry, of households not recorded as licensed; and by the use of detector cars equipped to pinpoint television sets in use.

All cases of evasion do not, of course, come individually to the notice of my Department; but I estimate that, as a result of its measures, more than 250,000 television licences were taken out in 1964.

Mr. Gibson-Watt

I thought that the right hon. Gentleman might answer those two Questions together. I would ask, first of all, why he did not answer the second Question, which was how many evasions does he believe there are at the moment? Secondly, does he agree that, as many people believe, the number of television licence evasions at the moment comes to between 25 and 30 per cent.? Would he tell us a little more about his methods of finding out about these people who fail to pay their television licences, particularly in view of what has been said in the newspapers with regard to the possibility—[HON. MEMBERS: "Speech."]

Mr. Speaker

Order. I will correct the hon. Gentleman when he is too long.

Mr. Gibson-Watt

Particularly with regard to what has been said in the newspapers recently about the possibility of the Government haying in mind the raising of the licence duty?

Mr. Benn

It was mot possible to answer in detail Question No. 25 because the Department does not keep records of evasions. We prosecuted 22,000 people last year and 250,000 television licences were taken out. These give some indication. We obviously cannot know, by definition, exactly how many evasions there are. Television Audience Measurement say there are about two million offenders. That would be £10 million out of £70 million licence revenue. So even T.A.M.'s estimate is quite different from the hon. Gentleman's figures. They are still extremely serious and I am considering other measures.

Mr. Lubbock

In view of the fact that evasion is so widespread, as the replies of the Postmaster-General indicate, involving £10 million out of a total of £70 million, would he not consider introducing legislation which would require a television retailer to see a licence from a potential purchaser before he sells him a television set?

Mr. Benn

This and other suggestions are being examined.