Discussions (Hansard, 2 November 1965)

§ 1. Mr. Wall
asked the Secretary of State for Commonwealth Relations if he will make a statement about constitutional development in Rhodesia.

§ 6. Mr. Fisher
asked the Secretary of State for Commonwealth Relations whether he will make a statement about Rhodesia.

§ 11. Mr. Hector Hughes
asked the Secretary of State for Commonwealth Relations if he will make a statement on his plans for dealing with the problems in Rhodesia now facing Her Majesty's Government.

§ 12. Mr. James Johnson
asked the Secretary of State for Commonwealth Relations if he will make a statement about the constitutional talks with Rhodesia.

§ The Secretary of State for Commonwealth Relations (Mr. Arthur Bottomley)
The House will not expect me to add to the detailed statement which my right hon. Friend the Prime Minister made yesterday afternoon.
My right hon. Friend the Attorney-General and I have reported to the Prime Minister on our further discussions with Rhodesian Ministers this last weekend.

§ Mr. Wall
While welcoming the right hon. Gentleman back from his arduous journey, may I ask whether it is not a fact that the Rhodesian Government have made further concessions towards the difficulties referred to by the Prime Minister yesterday and, in view of this, can he say when we are likely to reach agreement on the terms of the Royal Commission? If it has not been reached yet, can he say when it is likely to be reached?

§ Mr. Bottomley
The Attorney-General and I brought back a document which showed differences of opinion between both sides. The Rhodesian Government and our own Government will be considering these matters. As soon as a decision has been made by our Government we will be in consultation with the Rhodesian Government.

§ Mr. Johnson
Is my right hon. Friend aware that many hon. Members of this House who visit that country and, indeed, work there have the deepest misgivings about the capacity and the possibility of white people handing over political power voluntarily to African peoples? Can he say what Mr. Smith and his colleagues are doing in the way of the further advancement of the African peoples to fit them for this purpose particularly in the fields of education and the Civil Service?

§ Mr. Bottomley
What has been done by the Rhodesian Government is on record. As my hon. Friend will know, my hon. Friend the Parliamentary Secretary to the Ministry of Overseas Development went with the Prime Minister's mission and suggested ways in which, if the British Government could be helpful, we were willing to do so.

§ Mr. Fisher
I do not want to press the right hon. Gentleman to say more than he wishes to say at this stage, but, as the views of the rest of the Commonwealth are important in this matter, would he care to make an assessment to the House of the sort of reaction to the Royal Commission proposals which he and the Prime Minister encountered in the African countries on their way home?

§ Mr. Bottomley
Yes. The Prime Minister himself went to the West African countries and put the proposals before them. They understood the problem and listened sympathetically, and I have no doubt in due course will make their views generally known. I can speak more authoritatively on the case of those in the East, and I can say without any doubt that all of them, although not enthusiastic about the Royal Commission, were willing to try anything as long as success would follow, but with this proviso that independence ought not to come before majority rule.

§ Mr. Hughes
Whatever may be the outcome of the activities of the Secretary of State and of the Prime Minister in Rhodesia, does my right hon. Friend realise that all lovers of democracy will congratulate him and the Prime Minister on their efforts to maintain solidarity in the British Commonwealth of nations which is one of the greatest instruments for peace in the world?

§ Mr. Bottomley
I thank my hon. and learned Friend very much indeed for those remarks.

§ 7. Mr. William Hamilton
asked the Secretary of State for Commonwealth Relations if he will state the details of the terms offered to the Southern Rhodesia Government in February, 1965, as the minimum required before independence could be discussed.

§ Mr. Bottomley
No detailed terms were offered in my talks with Mr. Smith last February. A possible line of negotiation was opened, which the Government have subsequently conducted on the basis of the five essential principles of which the House is aware.

§ Mr. Hamilton
Is my right hon. Friend now saving categorically that there were no terms offered at that time, confidentially or otherwise, or that, if they were offered, they differed in no respect whatever from the five principles on which we are now acting?

§ Mr. Bottomley
Yes, Sir; that is the position.