HC Deb 24 May 1965 vol 713 cc16-8
17. Mr. Shepherd

asked the Minister of Pensions and National Insurance to what extent there appears to be abuse of the provisions for unemployment benefit and National Assistance; how many persons capable of employment are receiving unemployment benefit and/or National Assistance because they seek employment in a highly specialised field; and if she will estimate the number of persons in receipt of National Assistance who are employed irregularly in activities such as farming.

Mr. Pentland

I cannot speculate about the extent to which people who apply for unemployment benefit and National Assistance may be prepared to make statements that do not reflect their true circumstances and intentions; but I can assure the hon. Member that measures are constantly being taken to check abuse so far as this can be done without penalising the great majority of honest people who are actively looking for work. I regret that no information is available about the number of people in the particular categories mentioned in the second part of the Question.

Mr. Shepherd

Would not it be very desirable if the hon. Gentleman could make some estimate of these figures, as it might alleviate some of the concern felt by people all over the country about the extent of the abuse? Surely it is the hon. Gentleman's job to find out to what extent the public are being exploited? He does not seem to have made much effort to do so.

Mr. Pentland

As I tried to point out, we make every effort to offset any abuse with regard to unemployment benefit or National Assistance. For instance, the National Assistance Board has a team of about 100 specially trained officers who are detached from normal duties to investigate cases in which there is a suspicion of fraud. I could give the number of cases that were taken to court in recent years in regard to this. I assure the hon. Gentleman that every possible step is taken to offset any abuse.

Sir Knox Cunningham

Is the hon. Gentleman aware that certain classes of people who retire at 60 on pension, for example bank managers, then sign on, and for five years draw unemployment benefit? Is this in the spirit of the Act, and what is the hon. Gentleman going to do about it?

Mr. Pentland

If the hon. and learned Gentleman can bring forward concrete evidence of this, we would be prepared to look at it, but surely he is aware that one of the main conditions is that before a claimant can claim unemployment benefit he must sign a declaration that he is available for work? The people to whom the hon. and learned Gentleman is referring are in that category.

Mrs. Thatcher

Will the hon. Gentleman make it quite clear that unemployment benefit cannot be drawn for as long a period as five years for an unbroken spell, and that it can be drawn for a maximum of 19 months only?

Mr. Pentland

That is correct. I am obliged to the hon. Lady.