HC Deb 17 May 1965 vol 712 cc989-91
35. Lord Balniel

asked the Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster which independent bodies working in the field of social welfare have submitted evidence to him in connection with his review of social security.

The Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster (Mr. Douglas Houghton)

A number of organisations and individuals have written to me, but none has sent any formal evidence.

Lord Balniel

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that his reluctance to consult certain private occupational pension schemes has given a widespread impression that his scheme will hit at private occupational pension schemes? Will he give an assurance that such schemes will play a major and increasing part in the social security provisions of this country?

Mr. Houghton

I deny any suggestion of a refusal or hesitation to consult anybody about anything in this review. The door is wide open to anybody who wishes to send anything in. I assure the hon. Member that we shall not overlook any representations which anyone cares to make. As to the representatives of occupational pension schemes, I have had conversations with at least one body, and in any case it is obviously one of the major questions of the review as to how to reconcile the interests of the occupational schemes and the State scheme.

Mr. William Hamilton

Could my right hon. Friend say which independent bodies, if any, were asked for information by or sent evidence to the previous Administration when they were introducing their graduated scheme and what notice was taken of it?

Mr. Houghton

That seems to me to be a question addressed to the benches opposite. I have no knowledge of it.

Mr. Ridsdale

How long will this review take? Surely the Minister has enough evidence already from my hon. Friend the Member for Abingdon (Mr. Neave), especially about non-contributory pensioners, many of whom are in urgent need.

Mr. Houghton

The review is proceeding, and we are making good progress, but I cannot say how long it will be before it is complete.

36. Lord Balniel

asked the Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster whether he will list the independent bodies working in the field of social welfare which he has invited to submit evidence to him in his review of social security.

Mr. Houghton

No invitations have yet been issued. As I told the hon. Member for Wanstead and Woodford (Mr. Patrick Jenkin) on 24th March, the Government will be seeking the views of major organisations on particular issues as they arise, but this will not be until work on the review is further advanced.

Lord Balniel

As many months have passed since this review was initiated, surely the time has come when the right hon. Gentleman should be able to invite outside bodies to give evidence? Could he give an assurance that when he says that he will listen to their evidence he means that he will listen more seriously than his right hon. Friend the First Secretary of State intended in his undertaking to listen to the steel companies?

Mr. Houghton

We shall consult other people as soon as we are able to do so. I have given the noble Lord an assurance that this will be done, and it will be done. I wish he would stop behaving as if he were the Billy Graham of the Conservative Party.

Mr. Ridsdale

On a point of order. Six of my hon. Friends had Questions down to the Paymaster-General. They passed the Table and then the Paymaster-General in a very autocratic and evasive way transferred these Questions to other Ministers. What protection have we against that?

Mr. Speaker

That raises no point of order. I am not responsible for transfers.