HC Deb 06 May 1965 vol 711 cc1545-7
20. Mr. Marten

asked the Secretary of State for Education and Science what progress he has made in setting up an educational trust with a view to the integration of the public schools within the State system of education.

21. Mr. Park

asked the Secretary of State for Education and Science if he will now make a further statement on the integration of independent schools within the State system.

31. Mr. William Hamilton

asked the Secretary of State for Education and Science what progress he has made in his discussions on the future of the public schools, and their integration within the public system.

Mr. Crosland

I will make a statement as soon as I am ready.

Mr. Marten

Can the Minister say, if the public schools refuse integration and if the Labour Party insists on integration—and must therefore compulsorily purchase the public schools at a fair price and pay for the goodwill—what will be the total cost of this operation?

Mr. Speaker

Order. That supplementary question began with two propositions, beginning with the word "if", which makes it hypothetical.

Mr. Marten

Would the Minister—

Mr. Speaker

Order. It is out of order, because it is hypothetical.

Mr. Park

Would not my right hon. Friend agree that one of the major principles of the integration of the public schools into the State system should be public control of the whole of the intake, in accordance with a formula based on need which the Minister will himself determine? Would not he further agree that there is no need at all to hesitate before introducing legislation should it prove that it is impossible to reach agreement on these principles with the public schools authorities?

Mr. Crosland

I will pay the closest attention, as I always do, to the views of my hon. Friend on this subject, without necessarily accepting the principles which he is suggesting.

Mr. Hamilton

In view of the likelihood of quite protracted negotiations on this matter, would my right hon. Friend consider, as an immediate step, introducing the quota system of teacher allocation to the public schools in order to redress the balance of teacher facilities vis á vis the public sector and the private independent sector?

Mr. Crosland

I will certainly consider that, without committing myself in advance.

Mr. Marten

Could the Minister give the value of the public schools in the event of them being taken over?

Mr. Crosland

No, Sir. As far as I know, no such valuation has ever taken place.

Sir E. Boyle

Would not the right hon. Gentleman agree that this highly important subject is really too big for Question Time and that, in view of the speeches which Ministers have made on this subject recently, a statement is desirable as soon as possible? In the light of the supplementary question of the hon. Member for Fife, West (Mr. William Hamilton), would not the right hon. Gentleman agree that I made a suggestion myself on this subject in last Friday's debate, while at the same time pointing out that a quota system really could not be applicable to the independent schools?

Mr. Crosland

I am aware of the statement made by the right hon. Gentleman on Friday. As to timing, of course I will make a statement as soon as possible. As hon. Members are aware, this is a highly complex and complicated question and I am not going to be rushed into making a statement. I will do so as soon as I am satisfied that we have a sensible statement to make.

Mr. Snow

Is my right hon. Friend aware that there are public schools and public schools? [HON. MEMBERS: "Hear, hear."] Will he be careful not to introduce into the State system an adulterating element from some of the quaint establishments that call themselves public schools?

Mr. Crosland

I shall certainly try to guard against introducing adultery into the State system. I take note of what my hon. Friend said.