HC Deb 31 March 1965 vol 709 cc1624-8
5. Mr. Evelyn King

asked the Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food if, having regard to the current price of potatoes, he will now arrange with the Potato Marketing Board for a support price.

Mr. Hoy

I have nothing to add to the Answer given by my right hon. Friend to my hon. Friend the Member for Bury and Radcliffe (Mr. Ensor) on 22nd February.

Mr. King

Is the Minister aware that this potato price is as inadequate as is the price offered by him for milk? When the Government decided upon this policy of poverty farming, did they also consider the effect not only upon the farmer, but upon agricultural workers, whose standard of living is already low and which must as a result become lower?

Mr. Hoy

That supplementary question has nothing to do with the Question. Indeed, it is just a conglomeration rather resembling the hon. Member's political thinking.

Mr. Speaker

I quite agree that the supplementary question has nothing to do with the Question, but I am not certain that I greatly admire that type of answer.

Mr. Hoy

If the hon. Member puts a supplementary question that has nothing to do with the original Question, Mr. Speaker, certainly he must take that type of answer. [HON. MEMBERS: "Order."]

Mr. Speaker

There is no point of order. The point is that if answers are used for what I might describe as making gentle inter-party attacks, such a practice tends to prolong the time we take Over Questions.

Sir Harmar Nicholls

On a point of order. Is it in order, Mr. Speaker, for an hon. Member on the Front Bench to contest your Ruling whilst back-benchers cannot?

Mr. Speaker

I do not think that the hon. Gentleman was contesting any Ruling. If he did, I did not notice it. I want to get on with Questions.

12. Mr. Evelyn King

asked the Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food if he will state the average price per ton of potatoes paid to the grower in the last three months.

Mr. Hoy

The average price received by United Kingdom growers for the last three months is estimated at £14 12s. a ton.

Mr. King

Is the hon. Gentleman aware that this price is insufficient to yield to farmers a sufficient return, and as he appears to have taken some umbrage at my earlier Question, may I ask whether he is aware that that is not merely my opinion, but the opinion of 200 angry Dorset farmers who were stamping the Lobby this morning? Will the hon. Gentleman accept that it is my duty to put their view, just as it is his duty to hear it, and to note it?

Mr. Hoy

Of course, and I will listen to it if it is put by the hon. Gentleman. All I can say is that the guaranteed price for the 1964 crop was £14 per ton. That was the agreement reached. Over the last three months it has been shown that the price is likely to be about £14 12s. As the hon. Gentleman knows, further discussions are taking place, but we have had two support buying programmes in the course of this year to get it to this level.

Mr. MacArthur

Is it not correct that the United Kingdom average conceals a depressed price paid to growers in Scotland, and can the hon. Gentleman say what estimate he and his right hon. Friends have made of the losses incurred by potato growers, particularly growers in Scotland, as a result of the Government's slowness in accepting the commercial judgment of the Potato Marketing Board?

Mr. Hoy

It is true that throughout the years the price in Scotland has always been different from that south of the Border. This is nothing new. With regard to the last part of the hon. Gentleman's supplementary question, I am bound to say that all this was taken into consideration when the price was fixed at the last Annual Review. Indeed, the hon. Gentleman knows that it was as a result of this Annual Review that the price was increased.

Mr. Eldon Griffiths

Is the hon. Gentleman aware that if he had accepted the advice offered to him by the Potato Marketing Board earlier this year he would have avoided a great deal of dissatisfaction among potato growers as well as saving the taxpayer a good deal of money which he wasted by refusing that advice?

Mr. Hoy

That just is not correct. What we had to do was to wait to see how the prices were moving, and at the end of last year a support scheme was agreed to. In the early part of this year, when it looked as though the market might fall more, we were approached once again. My right hon. Friend then said that, if the market showed any sign of a further decline, he would enter into another programme. This he did, and gave approval for a further scheme of support buying which has brought the market back to its present level.

30. Mr. William Hamilton

asked the Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food if he is aware that the price paid to producers of potatoes is currently £12 to £14 per ton and that the price charged to the housewife is about £36 per ton; and what steps he will take to investigate the reasons for this price difference.

Mr. Peart

During the week ended 23rd March growers' prices of potatoes ranged between about £12 and £21 per ton according to variety and quality. Average retail prices in England and Wales during the same period were equivalent to about £31 per ton for white varieties and £38 per ton for reds; for different varieties in Scotland retail prices varied between £21 and £32. The margin between growers' and retail prices is not, therefore quite as wide as my hon. Friend suggests, particularly in Scotland; and in any case it is rather misleading to express the retail price in terms of £s per ton. These margins were examined by the Runciman Committee.

Mr. Hamilton

Is not my right hon. Friend concerned about the apparently outrageous disparity between what the producer gets and what the consumer pays? Does this not emphasise the need for the kind of inquiry that I asked for in my earlier Question, to find out exactly where the hundreds of millions of pounds of public money each year are going—whether to the producer or the consumer, or to the middleman, as I suspect?

Mr. Peart

As I have already said to my hon. Friend, what I think matters most in the future are proper marketing and a reduction in the costs of distribution. I am bearing these things in mind. Naturally, I am anxious to improve things. Horticulture is one subject which has still to be considered.

Sir Knox Cunningham

Will the right hon. Gentleman repudiate the allegations of feather-bedding of farmers which are constantly being made by his hon. Friend the Member for Fife, West (Mr. William Hamilton)?

Mr. Peart

The hon. Member should not be so touchy and sensitive. There is no question of an argument for or against feather bedding. As I have said over and over again, we have given support to the principles of the 1947 Act, and the last Review, which is a £10 million plus review, compares very favourably with Reviews made under the Conservative Administration. The latest Review will enable farmers to have their incomes improved.

Several Hon. Members rose

—

Mr. Speaker

Order. The whole thing is out of order anyway, and always was.