HC Deb 31 March 1965 vol 709 cc1639-42
18. Mr. Eldon Griffiths

asked the Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food if he will improve the guaranteed price paid to pig producers.

Mr. Peart

The guaranteed price and the level of the middle band in combination determine what producers' returns will be, and the two must be looked at together. We have raised the middle band by 900,000, and, while the basic guaranteed price related to this higher middle band has been reduced by 1s. 7d. per score, the immediate effect of the two changes is to increase producers' returns on average by 11d. per score from 29th March.

Mr. Griffiths

Is the Minister aware that many farmers who produce pigs, instead of just talking about them, are well aware that their costs recently have gone up 25s. per pig and their receipts have gone down £2 and the net effect of the Minister's allegedly generous changes is in fact to depress the industry where pigs are produced.

Mr. Peart

The hon. Member is being rather offensive, I think. Lots of people do not produce pigs and he does not either—that is why he is here.

Mr. Griffiths

I do.

Mr. Peart

You have somebody else to produce them—[Interruption.]—Mr. Speaker, if I could be protected from hon. Members, I should be grateful.

Hon. Members

Windy.

Mr. Speaker

Order. I do not think that the Minister requires any protection—it is the pigs. We are not getting on with Questions.

Sir Knox Cunningham

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker. Is it in order for the Minister to refer to you producing pigs?

Mr. Speaker

Order. Let us get on with Questions. Everyone will be so annoyed in due course that they did not get on with Questions.

Mr. Peart

In reply to the hon. Member, may I reply—

Sir H. Harrison

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker. My hon. Friend the Member for Bury St. Edmunds (Mr. Eldon Griffiths) does produce pigs. He has a herd of over 1,000 in Sussex. Is it in order to—

Mr. Speaker

Order. The hon. Member cannot import them into a point of order.

Mr. Peart

In reply to the question which I was asked, if the hon. Member will read carefully the speech of the Leader of the Opposition, he will find that he said that the adjustments for pigs were not out of line with what was required.

Mr. Griffiths

I should like to ask the Minister if he will correct the record and, in correcting the record, withdraw his statement that the hon. Member for Bury St. Edmunds does not produce pigs. In fact he does.

Mr. Peart

I was only saying—[HON. MEMBERS: "Withdraw."]—that he employed other people to do the farming for him.

Sir M. Redmayne

May I assure the right hon. Gentleman that I am not yet Leader of the Opposition.

29. Mr. Ian Gilmour

asked the Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food whether he will make transmissible gastroenteritis in pigs a notifiable disease.

Mr. John Mackie

No, Sir. In spite of the considerable amount of research work done, we do not yet know enough about the disease to say whether control based on compulsory notification is practicable.

Mr. Gilmour

Surely to make this disease notifiable is the only way of investigating it properly. Would it not be better to act sooner rather than later?

Mr. Mackie

One has to have considerable knowledge of the whole situation before one can act. It is a big step to take to make a disease notifiable, such as we had to do in the case of foot-and-mouth disease and swine fever. A considerable amount of research is going on, and there is no lack of funds for it. If the situation develops—we have recently had outbreaks particularly in the hon. Gentleman's area—I take it that it will be in hand. It is not a question of acting too late; it is a question of acting when we have the right knowledge.

34. Mr. Peter Mills

asked the Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food what are his plans to increase the profitability of the pig industry; and whether he is satisfied with the workings of the standard quantity system in relation to the production of pig meat.

Mr. Peart

The immediate effect of the changes we have made at the Review is to increase producers' returns, on average, by 11d. per score. As regards the second part of the Question, I would refer the hon. Member to my reply to the hon. Member for North Angus and Mearns (Mr. Buchanan-Smith) on 24th March.

Mr. Mills

Will the Minister bear in mind that the pig industry is not profitable at the moment? [Interruption.] Having kept pigs for 21 years I ought to know, and I assure hon. Gentlemen opposite that it is not profitable. Will the right hon. Gentleman also remember that the increase in the Price Review will not cover the increased costs, so will he do something, in a five-year programme for the pig industry, to strengthen P.I.D.A. and to secure better marketing as well?

Mr. Peart

I hope that the hon. Gentleman will remember that his right hon. Friend has supported what I have done. He said that it was just about right. Apart from that, there is the increase of 11d. per score.

Mr. Kershaw

Will the right hon. Gentleman get it into his head that this increase of 11d. per score is more than offset by extra costs, and that the raising of pigs is less remunerative today than it was? Will he understand that?

Mr. Peart

The hon. Gentleman should not get hysterical. Because of my decision to improve the position, it could well mean this year, another £3 million to £4 million.

Mr. Maxwell-Hyslop

Does not the right hon. Gentleman realise that if the British pig industry is to supply as much high quality pig meat as the market wants it will still go outside the middle band, so ought not the upper level of the middle band to be increased still further?

Mr. Peart

As the hon. Gentleman knows, I have improved the position. I have increased the middle band as well as the steps either side.