HC Deb 22 March 1965 vol 709 cc9-10
7. Mr. Dean

asked the Minister of Pensions and National Insurance what changes she proposes to make in the retirement condition and the earnings rule in order to encourage gradual retirement.

Miss Herbison

It is not easy to see what changes would produce the result the hon. Member has in mind, without completely undermining the present conditions. But, as he is aware, these matters will come within our review of the social security arrangements.

Mr. Dean

Would the right hon. Lady agree that now that the earnings rule has been abolished for widows it is neither fair nor just to retain it for retirement pensioners? Can she give an assurance that she, in consultation with her right hon. Friend the Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster, will work out an acceptable method for abolishing the rule altogether?

Miss Herbison

What we have done for widows does not seem to me to have much application to the principle that applies to retirement pensioners, but I again emphasise that this is a matter to which we will be giving attention in reviewing social security.

Lord Balniel

But can the Minister tell us what the logic is of abolishing the rule for widows and retaining it for retirement pensioners? As it is very much in their interests that elderly persons should be encouraged to continue in employment, if they wish to do so, for as long as possible, was it not a great pity that the Government only a few weeks ago voted down an Amendment from these benches that we should increase the increments for retirement pensioners?

Miss Herbison

One of the particular reasons for abolishing the rule for widows was to cover the widowed mother trying to give her family the same standard of living and educational opportunities that children having both parents get, and I think that it was a very wise thing to do. If we take the question as it applies to retirement pensioners, a great many of those of retirement age continue to work and, as previous Governments have done, we will from time to time examine the point where the earnings rule may begin to operate. The whole question will be left to the review.