HC Deb 11 March 1965 vol 708 cc613-5
26. Sir T. Beamish

asked the Secretary of State for Education and Science what information he has about the number of pre-school playgroups formed in England and Wales; to what extent it is the policy of his Department to encourage the formation of such groups; and what advice he has given to local authorities about the attitude they should adopt towards them.

Mr. Prentice

My Department does not collect statistical information about pre-school playgroups. These groups are outside the scope of my right hon. Friend's responsibilities and it is there-more not for him to encourage their formation or to give advice about them to local education authorities.

Sir T. Beamish

Is the Minister of State aware that that is a very disappointing reply? Is he aware that many people take the view that these preschool playgroups fulfil a valuable social, and, to some extent, educational, need? Is he aware of the great disappointment in East Sussex, when local education authorities offered some financial help to these groups and they were told by his Ministry that that was not permitted? Will he look at this matter again?

Mr. Prentice

I think that the disappointment is with the scope of the law on these matters. Certain matters have been laid down in the past as falling within educational policy and being the responsibility of my Department and of local education authorities, but these fall outside. Perhaps this is something to be considered. It is certainly something which can be considered in the review now being carried out by the Central Advisory Council under the chairmanship of Lady Plowden, which will be looking at primary education and the earlier approach to it. I do not think that we are likely to be able to make a pronouncement until after we have received its report.

Mr. Crawshaw

Is my hon. Friend aware that Liverpool University thinks this matter very important? Does he know that they now run extramural classes for people who want to participate in this work? Would his Department look with favour at those local authorities who provide some financial help towards their upkeep and, in particular, provide equipment for which the authorities have no further use?

Mr. Prentice

I hope that my original reply did not seem to indicate that I did not sympathise with the point of view of the questioner. This is valuable work which we want to encourage. What I have to do as a Departmental Minister is to give the legal position and remind the House that this practice is not covered by the scope of the Education Acts. Therefore, the financial help mentioned is simply not available.

Mr. Chataway

Is the Minister of State saying that local education authorities may not give assistance, because some do at the moment? Will he look at this again, as I think that these preschool playgroups do a very good job.

Mr. Prentice

Many education authorities are also local authorities and the assistance may be under a different head, but I will look at this. As advised, I think that it is not within the scope of education policy as such.

Mr. Freeson

Will my hon. Friend give a clear commendation of this kind of work, which we do not seem to have had this afternoon, especially in view of the shortage of the provision of nursery school places and staff and the desirability for parents to become involved in education? Is not the pre-school playgroup method a healthy and satisfactory way of proceeding along these lines?

Mr. Prentice

If my hon. Friend is asking for a commendation, I give it warmly, but I thought that I was being asked for more than I was in a position now to give.

Sir T. Beamish

In view of the very disappointing nature of the reply, I give notice that I shall raise the matter on the Adjournment.