HC Deb 11 March 1965 vol 708 cc618-20
Q2. Mr. Longden

asked the Prime Minister what progress is being made towards the setting up of a new office of Parliamentary Commissioner.

Q19. Mr. Victor Yates

asked the Prime Minister when he proposes to establish a new office of Parliamentary Ombudsman.

The Prime Minister

I am not yet ready to make a statement on this matter.

Mr. Longden

Is the right hon. Gentleman satisfied that in setting up this huge new Department of State, which will be eight times as large as its counterpart in Sweden and twenty-five times as large as that in New Zealand, he is not setting up a protective screen for Her Majesty's Ministers rather than Her Majesty's subjects? Will he confirm that the subject's present ombudsman, the M.P., will continue to have direct access to Ministers?

The Prime Minister

The hon. Gentleman must remain responsible for his own calculation of the figures, but he is quite wrong in talking about a Department of State. The analogy in this case, on which it was specifically based when I first put it forward last year, is the appointment of the Comptroller and Auditor General, and anyone who knows anything about Government Departments, the C. and A.G., or the Public Accounts Committee will know that whatever he is, he is not a protective screen for the Government against either the House or the country as a whole, but quite the opposite. However, certainly I agree with the hon. Member about the importance of what he has said about the position of Members of Parliament and reporting to the House of Commons. With the aid of a Select Committee, it will mean that Members of Parliament will be strengthened in their activities and in their work. Nothing will be done in any form which would restrict the right of any Member of Parliament to take up a case or have direct access to Ministers in their duties.

Mr. Yates

Will my right hon. Friend bear in mind that there is a considerable backlog of cases of glaring injustice arising from decisions by Ministers in the previous Government, and that if he wants examples I will give them? Will he therefore speed up this appointment so that an independent guardian of liberty can be appointed and so that justice will be seen to be done?

The Prime Minister

We are still finding one or two evidences of this backlog ourselves, even without the kind offer of my hon. Friend. However, it should be said that under any Government in modern times, whatever its political colour, there will always be the danger, because of the very size and extent of government, of decisions being taken, in good faith in practically every case, when injustice or grievance may be created. It is for this reason, if we are to modernise and democratise the work of Government still further, that we must have protection of this kind.

Mr. Buck

Will the right hon. Gentleman give a further assurance that not only will the Parliamentary Commissioner be answerable to Parliament but that approaches to him will be made only through Members of Parliament?

The Prime Minister

I think that the hon. Gentleman had better await the publication of the proposals. We have done a great deal of work on this. I assure him that it has taken a lot of time to sort out the right answer to the problems of hon. Members.