HC Deb 30 June 1965 vol 715 cc595-8
3. Mr. Hector Hughes

asked the Postmaster-General if he is aware that the increase in the television licence to £5 presses harshly on people of bad hearing, especially old deaf people; and if he will make arrangements to save such people from paying the increased cost of television licences.

Mr. Benn

I have considered with great sympathy the possibility of introducing concessionary fees for various groups, including people of bad hearing. But I have been forced to conclude that it would be impracticable to do so without creating serious anomalies.

Mr. Hughes

Does not my right hon. Friend realise that sympathy is not enough and that the scope of these services is narrowed as a result of people who are poor and who have bad hearing being deprived of the opportunity to use the services? Apart from sympathy, will he take steps to see that justice is done to them?

Mr. Benn

It was for the reasons which my hon. and learned Friend gave that I made inquiries about this possibility as soon as I took office. But the Post Office is not equipped to assess need. The increases in question come to about ¼d. per viewer per day, and I do not really believe that what my hon. and learned Friend proposes would be the best way of meeting the point he has in mind. The savings cards which are to be introduced in August will, I think, make some contribution to the solution of the general problem.

Mr. Chataway

Is the Postmaster-General still attracted to the idea of getting the B.B.C. to secure part of its revenue at least from advertising?

Mr. Benn

The hon. Gentleman's question is not framed in accordance with the points I made in the debate on 13th May. What I said then, and I repeat now, is that the Government are seriously anxious to consider any proposal which may be put before them.

33. Mr. Freeson

asked the Postmaster-General if he will suspend the fees for radio and television licences for retired persons living alone with incomes up to State pension level and National Assistance Board supplements.

Mr. Benn

I have examined this suggestion with the greatest possible care. However, I am now satisfied that such a scheme would create serious anomalies, and would involve administrative costs out of all proportion to its benefits.

Mr. Freeson

While having no doubt in my mind that the Minister has treated this matter very sympathetically, may I ask him to look at it once again? Will he bear in mind that it should be a fairly simple operation to work out a scheme of application in co-operation with the National Assistance Board and his Department which should not be over-weighty administratively and which would benefit economically very many pensioners and people of that standing? Will he bear very much in mind the fact that a considerable number of pensioners may not be able to use their television sets as a result of this proposed increase?

Mr. Benn

As I said to my hon. Friend, I shared his desire to help, but I am satisfied that such a scheme would not help the neediest people. It would involve a complicated verification of the need of "living alone". It would put the burden on licence holders. The Post Office would be required to assess need. The benefits would be very small indeed compared with even the renting of television sets which runs between 7s. and 10s. a week as against about 4d. a day for the licence. As my right hon. Friend the Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster said in the debate recently, this is not the best way of meeting this problem.

Sir A. V. Harvey

Will the right hon. Gentleman look at this matter again in the coming weeks? Why is it that local authorities in certain areas can provide free transport facilities to pensioners in deserving cases? There is no great administrative liability in this matter. Will he take into account the fact that, although the pensioners have had an increase in their pension, it is being rapidly eroded. The sum which they have to pay is a very serious hardship to most of these old people.

Mr. Benn

As the hon. and gallant Gentleman knows, the increases recently announced amount to ¼d. per viewer per day. This is the amount with which we are dealing when we talk about relieving them of the increase. I have looked at this very carefully, but if the hon. and gallant Gentleman has other considerations in mind which I have overlooked, I shall be glad, naturally, to consider them.

Mr. Hugh D. Brown

In the light of the examination made by the Minister and his indication of sympathy, would he have discussions with the appropriate Minister for administering the National Assistance Board's scales to see whether something can be done through the Board to help this category of people?

Mr. Benn

I have considered the question of those who are on National Assistance, but the anomaly which would be created would be that a man who was not on National Assistance would not benefit whereas someone who was on National Assistance might benefit, and some people might be inclined or eligible to go on assistance in order to receive this type of benefit. I do not believe that this is practicable.