§ 12. Mr. Kenneth Lewisasked the Minister of Labour what progress he has made, in discussions with the trade unions and employers, towards securing a reduction in the number of years of training required to complete apprenticeship training.
§ 20. Mr. Bostonasked the Minister of Labour what progress he is making in modernising apprenticeship schemes to ensure that an adequate training is given in the shortest possible time.
§ Mr. MarshIndustries which have already reduced their apprenticeship period include building and other sections of the construction industry, hotel and catering, hospital catering and retail meat. The engineering industry has reduced the period for boys who remain at school beyond their 16th birthday. Other industries are known to have the matter under active consideration. My right hon. Friend hopes that all industries will adopt an apprenticeship period appropriate to the content of the course and the qualifications of entrants. He will expect industrial training boards to adopt this approach.
§ Mr. LewisWill the hon. Gentleman have discussions with the T.U.C. on this matter to try to get a speed-up in uniform practice?
§ Mr. MarshOne does not want to aggravate these difficulties. There have been very real changes in attitude to the problem, which is absolutely crucial to the economy. Nonetheless, it would be a mistake to believe that the only people who are conservative in their approach to the length of apprenticeships are the trade unions. We hope to get a realisation throughout the country that what matters in the training of craftsmen is not how long they are trained but what they learn under training.
§ Mr. BostonIs my hon. Friend aware that the progress he is making in this will be warmly welcomed? Is he further aware that these are steps which should have been taken years ago by the previous Administration? Will he also accept that one of the reasons why we 13 are not getting more apprentices is because of the length of time spent on apprenticeships and the small amount of pay? How soon will it be before more industries accept shorter apprenticeship training? Which are they likely to be?
§ Mr. MarshMy hon. Friend should not expect too much of right hon. and hon. Gentlemen opposite. They only had 13 years in office. Basically, the problem will be solved by the industrial training boards which will have the task of laying down the training which is necessary to qualify for grant. This process will enable both sides of industry to look again at the length of existing apprenticeships.
A number of industries have already reduced the length of training. They include the constructional, engineering, chemical, hotel and catering, hospital catering, retail meat and the silk and man-made fibre industries. The electricity supply industry is considering a reduction. More progress is being made and both sides of industry are entitled to congratulation.
§ Mr. Ronald BellWould not the hon. Gentleman agree the age of entry into a apprenticeships and their duration offer scope for one of the most important advances in industrial productivity? Does rot he agree also that the key to any progress in both these matters is the use of the industrial training boards which were set up by my right hon. Friend the Member for Grantham (Mr. Godber) by legislation in the last Parliament?
§ Mr. MarshI appreciate that the right hon. Member for Grantham (Mr. Godber) was responsible for this non-party legislation and that he appointed four chairmen. Since then, however, we have been dealing with the recommendations of the boards and they are moving in a direction acceptable to both sides of industry.