HC Deb 02 June 1965 vol 713 cc1713-6
Mr. Richard Wood

(by Private Notice) asked the Minister of Health whether he will make a statement on his recent discussions with the British Medical Association on the family doctor service.

The Minister of Health (Mr. Kenneth Robinson)

I am glad to say that a substantial measure of agreement has been reached with the profession's negotiating team on proposals covering the particular matters on which the profession wished for early assurances. As I promised in my reply to my hon. Friend the Member for Glasgow, Govan (Mr. Rankin) on 31st May, copies of the joint Report of the discussions are now available in the Library.

I understand that following meetings of the General Medical Services Committee and the Council of the British Medical Association the Report will be considered by the Conference of Local Medical Committees and the Representa- tive Body of the British Medical Association later this month.

I look forward to their endorsement of the proposals and to further fruitful discussions on the matters still outstanding. The first of these will be held tomorrow. I have, of course, made it clear that the proposals cannot be implemented while the question of withdrawal from the Service remains in issue.

Mr. Wood

May I thank the right hon. Gentleman for placing copies of the report of the discussions in the Library? We welcome the progress which seems to have been made on the question of finance for practices, ancillary staff and the reduction of certification, but I should like to ask the right hon. Gentleman three questions. When does he hope to be able to introduce legislation to set up the corporation? When will the proposals for ancillary help begin to be operative, and in this connection to what extent is the threat of withdrawal from the Service still an issue between the Government and the profession?

Lastly, when progress in the future has been made on the revision of the contract and the replacement of the pool system, will the right hon. Gentleman undertake to do his best to try to make a statement to the House before that contract has been referred for pricing to the Review Body?

Mr. Robinson

I am grateful to the right hon. Gentleman for his welcome to the statement and the progress which we have made so far. As for legislation for the independent Finance Corporation for practice premises, all I can say is that it will be through in time at any rate for this to be implemented by 1st April next, but, subject, of course, to the Parliamentary time-table, it need not await that date.

As for the ancillary scheme, I have made it clear that provided the withdrawals from the Service are no longer in issue I am prepared to consider proposals from the profession to implement this at an earlier date and they have suggested 1st October. It is difficult for me to say how much this matter is in issue at the moment, because the two bodies considering the Report so far have come to differing conclusions on this and the matter will be resolved at the representative meeting and the Conference of Local Medical Committees later this month.

I will do my best to meet the right hon. Gentleman's third point. It is a little unusual for negotiations of this kind to be reported to the House in midstream, so to speak, nevertheless, subject to the profession's agreement and provided that Parliament is sitting and this does not mean any delay in referring the contract to the Review Body, I shall be glad to consider sympathetically the right hon. Gentleman's suggestion when we come to the end of the discussions on the contract.

The right hon. Gentleman asked about the date. I should have thought that probably late autumn would be about the time that we could come to the end of these discussions.

Sir M. Stoddart-Scott

Am I right in assuming that a decision about the remuneration of doctors cannot be made until a recommendation of the Review Body has been made known to the Minister? When is that likely to be and when does the right hon. Gentleman think that doctors will get more appropriate pay for the hard work which they do?

Mr. Robinson

It is a fact that the level of remuneration can be known only when the contract has been finally decided in the negotiations, submitted to the Review Body and the Review Body's report has been presented to the Prime Minister. The hon. and gallant Gentleman asked when this would take place. I have said throughout these discussions that I had every hope that as long as we made reasonable progress, and I think that we have done so far, the whole new contract with the new methods of remuneration should be ready for introduction by 1st April next year.

Dr. Wyndham Davies

I think that back-benchers on both sides of the House will regret that the Minister made this statement to the Press before he gave it to the House today. [HON. MEMBERS: "Question."] Will the right hon. Gentleman stop reiterating that the doctors must withdraw their withdrawal notices? [HON. MEMBERS: "Why?"] Because this is the only hold they have—[HON. MEMBERS: "Oh."]—to make sure that the Government stick to their promises in relation to an important profession.

Mr. Robinson

As I told the right hon. Member for Bridlington (Mr. Wood), it is unusual to report interim stages of negotiations to the House, but, as I undertook, I have made copies of the Report available in the Library simultaneously with its publication; and publication had to be synchronised with the circulation of the Report to members of the hon. Gentleman's own profession at the request of the negotiators.

As for my insisting, before implementing the proposals, on the withdrawal of the notices, I think that this is generally regarded as a perfectly reasonable request. Perhaps I can tell the hon. Member that during the negotiations there has been virtually no reference whatever to these withdrawal notices and that they have not been a weapon in the negotiations at all.

Mr. Shepherd

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that many of us who want to see a satisfactory solution of this problem think that he is being generous in the way in which he is negotiating under duress and that we hope that the withdrawal notices will be swept aside so that a final conclusion may be reached?

Mr. Robinson

I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman.