Clause 2.—(REGISTRATION AUTHORITIES.) (Hansard, 27 July 1965)

§ Mr. Corfield
I beg to move Amendment No, 6, Clause 2, in page 2, line 9, after "shall", to insert: , subject to subsection (3) of this section,".

Mr. Deputy-Speaker
With this Amendment it will be convenient to take Amendment No. 7, Clause 2, at end insert: (3) Where, subsequent to the passing of this Act any county borough ceases to be a county borough, the Minister may, by order, nominate as Commons Registration Authority such other new or existing local authority as he considers appropriate, notwithstanding that it is neither a county council nor a county borough council.

§ Mr. Corfield
Yes, Mr. Deputy-Speaker. Very shortly, the purpose of the Amendment is to ensure that if during the course of this preliminary five-years' period, or whatever period is prescribed during which registration takes place, a change of status occurs in any local authority which, under the Act, is a registration authority, the Minister shall be enabled to ensure continuity by keeping the register going by whatever is the most suitable substitute authority created under the boundary change. The local government legislation contains an omnibus Section which enables the Minister to put in the actual order which alters the boundaries or status of a local authority a very large number of consequential matters. The real purpose of this Amendment is to ask the Minister if he can assure us that this matter would come under that omnibus Section. If he can assure us of that we would readily withdraw it. If not, will he accept the Amendment?

§ Mr. Skeffington
I am happy to assure the hon. Gentleman, and the House that this matter has been very fully considered by my right hon. Friend, and the Minister of Housing and Local Government. The Amendment envisages one sort of change but there may be a great many. There may be an amalgamation of registration authorities or they may be divided, or their boundaries may be changed, and we have consulted the Ministry of Housing and Local Government about this. It is fully aware of the need when registration starts, to provide for this continuance by the appropriate 374 authority, and we adhere to the view that this is something which has to be done by the county, or the county borough council, because it is a pretty substantial operation, and could not be done by a district council, or still less by a parish council. Provision can be made in the orders bringing forward the changes for any of these functions to be transferred.
The hon. Gentleman may remember the Luton Order in the last stages of the last Parliament where there were an enormous number of functions, including the division of water undertakings between new authorities, so it is, technically, fairly easy, by established instruments, to provide for this. With that assurance, I hope that the hon. Gentleman will not press his Amendment.
There may be a case where an authority had been acting as a commons registration authority, and the registration period had been completed, but it was in the course of hearing objections. In such a case it would be possible, in the order by the Ministry of Housing and Local Government, to provide that the authority could continue with the objections, because it would be very confusing, at that stage to get a new authority to carry on with part-heard objections. This can all be done under the Local Government Act.

§ Mr. Corfield
I beg leave to withdraw the Amendment.

§ Mr. Corfield
I beg to move Amendment No. 8, Clause 4, in page 2, to leave out line 38 and to insert "for complying with any prescribed conditions".
This is a drafting Amendment. We raised the matter in Committee, and the Minister said that he would look at it again. The last lines of Clause 4(1) read: … documents (if any) as may be prescribed for the purpose of verification or of proving compliance with any prescribed conditions. It seemed to us that the point would be much more simply met by the words on the Order Paper, merely, for complying with any prescribed conditions. 375 Many provisions as to compliance would themselves be conditions which, I would have thought, would have been amply covered by the words on the Order Paper and, if that is so, it is a much simpler sentence. Other things being equal, I would suggest that the simpler sentence is always more appropriate than the longer one.

§ Mr. Willey
I am obliged to the hon. Gentleman for pursuing this point, but it does not quite help. The sort of example we have in mind is that it may be a condition that the applicant claiming common rights should give notice to certain persons of his intention to apply. The acknowledgement of the notice might then be prescribed as a document which would be required to be produced to prove compliance with the conditions, and it is for that reason that it is so worded. I am obliged to the hon. Gentleman for according me the opportunity to explain the words as they are at the moment.

§ Mr. Corfield
I beg to ask leave to withdraw the Amendment.

§ Mr. Willey
I beg to move, Amendment No. 9, Clause 4, in page 3, line 4, to leave out "if the land" and insert "which".

Mr. Deputy-Speaker
With this Amendment we can also take Amendment No. 10, Clause 4, in page 3, line 7, to leave out "so registered" and insert "registered under this Act". and Amendment No. 11, Clause 4, in page 3, line 7, to leave out "so registered" and insert "registered under this section".

§ Mr. Willey
This is a drafting Amendment, to a meet the point which I thank the hon. Member for Gloucester, South (Mr. Corfield) for raising in Committee. This improves the Bill. If I may anticipate, the hon. Gentleman's Amendment No. 11, which is also a drafting Amendment, also improves the Bill.

Mr. Deputy-Speaker
Did I understand the right hon. Gentleman to say that he was favourably disposed towards Amendment No. 11?

§ Mr. Willey
Yes, Sir.

Mr. Deputy-Speaker
I understand that Amendment No. 10 falls with No. 9.

§ Mr. A. P. Costain (Folkestone and Hythe)
I beg to move Amendment No. 12, Clause 4, in page 3, line 7, at the end to insert: (4) Where any land over which rights of common are registered under this Act is registered under the Land Registration Acts 1925 and 1936 that fact, together with the name and address of the person in whose name the land is so registered, shall be noted upon the appropriate register maintained in accordance with the last preceding section. This Amendment can be easily explained. The object is to give complete equality to any land which is inside or outside land registration areas, as defined in the 1925 and 1936 Acts. One of the objects of the Bill is to enable owners of commons and the rights of commoners to be better known. It is quite illogical, if commons come in an area which is covered by the Land Registration Acts, that they should be any different. There are many commons which come under the present Land Registration Acts area. We hope that the Minister, for as long as he continues in office—not too long, we hope, but for the short time that he will be there—will extend the scope of land registration. It can be seen to be quite absurd that, at one time, the names of the owners were on the register and available, and, as the scope of the Acts advanced, they were not. This is quite illogical, and the Minister ought to put it right.

§ Mr. Willey
I am sorry to disappoint the hon. Gentleman, but this would mean a radical departure from the provisions of the Land Registration Acts. However strongly the hon. Gentleman may feel about this, I am sure that he would agree that this is not the place to take such a step. However, I can assure him that we are alive to the point which he raises. We shall be discussing with the Land Registry the steps which we can properly take when we come to further legislation.

§ Mr. Corfield
I appreciate the right hon. Gentleman's difficulty, because of the secrecy element in the Land Registration Acts. Nevertheless, I am sure that he will appreciate that if we can, 377 under this Act, make the register as complete as possible, it will be to our advantage, so that, when someone goes to see who is the owner, it will be possible to get some indication of who is the owner, despite the fact that his title is registered. It is nonsense that, despite the fact that he is the real owner, he is the one man whom one cannot find in the register and discover that he owns the land. I hope that the right hon. Gentleman will consider that, under regulations—his powers are wide enough—at least to provide for a note of the owner, where he consents even where his title is registered. At the moment, we are in a slightly ludicrous position, though I know that this would be hardly the right Bill in which to amend the Land Registration Acts. In so far as it is possible, I hope that we can get the fact known that these people are owners.

§ Mr. Willey
I speak again by leave of the House. I appreciate the point which the hon. Member has made.

Mr. Deputy-Speaker
The right hon. Gentleman does not need leave of the House.

§ Mr. Costain
In view of the fact that the Minister nodded twice, I gather that he is in agreement with me, although he will not admit it. I beg to ask leave to withdraw the Amendment.