Clause 30.—(SUPPLEMENTARY PROVISIONS AS TO PAYMENTS UNDER SECTION 29.) (Hansard, 21 July 1965)

§ Mr. Thornton

I beg to move Amendment No. 59, in page 24, line 29, to leave out from "Where" to "an" in line 30.

It would be convenient for the House to take with this Amendment the next Amendment, No. 60, for the two are related.

As the Clause stands, the Ministry is given power, under subsection (1), to require an employer to provide information, and to produce documents which may reasonably be required for either of two purposes, first, to determine the amount of rebate due to the employer, and secondly, to determine the amount of guaranteed payment to the worker under Clause 29. In subsection (2) the Clause goes on to make non-compliance with the notice requiring the production of such information a criminal offence, and to lay down penalties. This is apart from the further penalties in subsection (3) for giving false information.

12 m.

We now feel that we should draw a distinction between cases where the information is required in order to determine a claim for rebate, and cases where it is required to determine the amount of the guarantee payment under an exempted scheme to a worker under Clause 29. This is the case where the employer cannot, or will not, pay the worker, and we must be able to enforce production of any evidence needed to enable the Minister to pay the worker on the employer's behalf.

The case where it is simply the employer's own rebate that is at stake is different. It is obviously in the employer's interest to produce whatever evidence is required to facilitate payment of his rebate, and we do not think that there is any need for a criminal sanction in these cases. The Minister already has power under Clause 27(4,c) to require the production of the necessary information in relation to a claim for rebate. The rebate could not be 1756 paid if the necessary evidence substantiating the claim were not produced, and this is sufficient sanction in itself.

The Amendment therefore removes claims for rebate from the scope of this Clause, and therefore from the scope of the penalty in subsection (2). I hope that the House will agree that this is justified.