HC Deb 18 February 1965 vol 706 cc1359-61
Q5. Mr. Lubbock

asked the Prime Minister whether his estimate of £300 million for the research and development cost of the TSR2 includes the cost of the 20 pre-production aircraft or only of the first nine.

The Prime Minister

The estimate includes the full cost only of the first nine aircraft.

Mr. Lubbock

Is the Prime Minister aware that we are grateful to him for answering at least this Question? Why must the right hon. Gentleman slavishly copy the previous Tory Government's policy of refusing to give any information on these matters so that we may form a balanced judgment of them in this House?

The Prime Minister

Partly because, as I have explained—and as I explained during the debate on the censure Motion a fortnight ago and as my right hon. Friend explained last week—there is a great deal as yet that is still unknown about the potentialities both of the TFX Mark I and the possible potentialities of the TFX Mark II, and about the TSR2 as well.

Mr. Marten

It seems to me that the Prime Minister is going a little further than perhaps would be wise in quoting figures and prices for these numbers of aircraft. Would the right hon. Gentleman agree?

The Prime Minister

I was not quoting prices, but a broad estimate of saving which might be involved if a certain decision were taken. Indeed, I think that the time has come, if it is not overdue, when the House, when considering major expenditure programmes, should have some regard to costs and the position of the taxpayer. This has not been the position for several years, and we think it about time that it was.

Mr. Lubbock

Are we to take the word of the right hon. Gentleman for the saving which he says may be produced, or can we have some justification of it?

The Prime Minister

If the hon. Gentleman has any other estimates, the House would be prepared to receive them. We stated them on the basis of all the best information available to the Government who have responsibility in these matters both in respect of seeing that the Defence Services are properly equipped and that the taxpayer has a proper protection against excessive expenditure.