HC Deb 18 February 1965 vol 706 cc1333-7
1. Mr. Geoffrey Lloyd

asked the First Secretary of State and Secretary of State for Economic Affairs whether he will place before the price review body the current increases in prices charged by Government Departments and nationalised industries.

11. Mr. Ridsdale

asked the First Secretary of State and Secretary of State for Economic Affairs whether in his inquiry into increased prices he intends to investigate the recent increase in prices in the nationalised industries.

15. Sir Richard Glyn

asked the First Secretary of State and Secretary of State for Economic Affairs what steps he has taken to satisfy himself that there is no element of inflation in the recent increases in prices announced by nationalised industries.

24. Mr. Kitson

asked the First Secretary of State and Secretary of State for Economic Affairs if he will make inquiries into the recent price increases announced by the nationalised industries.

33. Mr. Heffer

asked the First Secretary of State and Secretary of State for Economic Affairs whether he will take steps to put before the price review body the current price increases charged by nationalised industries and in Government Departments.

39. Mr. Webster

asked the First Secretary of State and Secretary of State for Economic Affairs if he will ask the chairman of the nationalised industries to explain the reasons for their recent and proposed rises in prices and charges.

46. Mr. Chapman

asked the First Secretary of State and Secretary of State for Economic Affairs whether the proposed price review body will be empowered to consider current increases in prices charged by Government departments and publicly-owned industries.

The Minister of State, Department of Economic Affairs (Mr. Austen Albu)

The reasons for recent increases in prices and charges affecting the public at large have already been explained by the nationalised industries concerned to the Ministers responsible. My right hon. Friend sees no need at present for further investigation.

I do not exclude the possibility of prices charged by Government Departments being referred to the National Board for Prices and Incomes if circumstances made this desirable.

Mr. Lloyd

Does that mean, therefore, that the Minister agrees with the dictum of Lord Robens that in the case of nationalised industries increased wages costs are properly absorbed if one-third is dealt with by increased efficiency and two-thirds are put to deficit and saddled upon the taxpayer?

Mr. Albu

The question of the position of the National Coal Board is at present under investigation, which, of course, had been left for far too long by the previous Administration.

Mr. Ridsdale

Is the Minister aware that despite the capital investment of £4,500 million in the last 10 years in the nationalised electricity, coal and gas industries, the average price rise is 34 per cent, in the nationalised industries? Will he tell his right hon. Friend the First Secretary of State to take more care of the beam in his own eye and less of the mote in the eyes of his brothers and to do something about the nationalised industries?

Mr. Albu

I would have thought that in the case of some of the nationalised industries, particularly electricity, the price rise has been much less than in most other commodities. In the case of the gas industry, there has been a reduction in price by one board recently and there may well be reductions in price by other boards.

Sir Richard Glyn

Will the Minister tell his right hon. Friend that the increase in charges by nationalised industries has not only increased the cost of manufactures but will also very greatly increase the household expenditure of the average consumer? It is therefore inflationary. If the First Secretary is doing nothing about it, as I presume from the Minister's answer, it is high time that he did.

Mr. Albu

As I said, I have no reason to believe that, taking the nationalised industries as a whole, their price rises have been higher than other commodities in general use. I would have thought that the prices and rates of the nationalised industries are much more under public control than those of any other private industry.

Mr. Kitson

Is the Minister aware that his reply is most unsatisfactory? Is he further aware that a lot of my constituents are very worried about the recent electricity increases, and will he tell his right hon. Friend that his outbursts would be taken a little more seriously if he treated nationalised industries in the same way as he treats the private sector?

Mr. Albu

This is exactly what my right hon. Friend is doing. Perhaps the hon. Gentleman would like to inform his constituents that one of the reasons for the price rise by the electricity board referred to is the very high target return on capital imposed by the previous Government.

Mr. Heffer

Is my hon. Friend aware that for years the private sector has been sustained and underpinned by the public sector due to the policies of the last Government? In order to get the position quite clear, will he consider giving us a comparison in price rises between the private and public sectors within the last 12 months?

Mr. Albu

That is something which might be considered. It is a fact that, at any rate in the early years of the previous Administration, the prices in nationalised industries were artificially held down to the advantage of the private sector. It was not until the Select Committee on Nationalised Industries drew attention to this interference by Ministers with the price fixing of the nationalised industries that the previous Administration forced the nationalised industries to raise their prices.

Mr. Webster

Is the Economic Secretary aware that there have been very substantial price rises in many solid fuels in recent months? As the First Secretary is taking on inquisitorial powers over private enterprise, it is a pity that he is not here to answer Questions on this subject.

Mr. Albu

I am not the Economic Secretary; I am the Minister of State, Department of Economic Affairs. I think that my right hon. Friend has confidence in my capacity to answer Questions. If the hon. Gentleman does not believe that the nationalised industries are subject to a considerable degree of Ministerial inquiry, he should think again.

Mr. Heath

Is not the Minister of State saying that if he and his colleagues are happy about the nationalised industries and their prices, nothing more needs to be done? Is not this completely unsatisfactory? Just because the Government are satisfied with the prices charged by the nationalised industries, that is no reason why they should not go through this procedure. Secondly, while we are pleased to welcome the Minister of State here to answer Questions, would he convey to his right hon. Friend that, since he is the head of the Department and this is the first occasion in seven weeks on which he is top of the list, the House of Commons expects him to be here to answer Questions?

Mr. Albu

The only part of that supplementary question which needs a reply is whether or not the procedure for private industry should be adopted, for nationalised industries. The answer which I gave was, yes; where we think it necessary it will be adopted.

Sir Richard Glyn

On a point of order. In view of the unsatisfactory nature of the reply, I beg to give notice that I propose to raise this matter on the Adjournment at the earliest opportunity.