HC Deb 17 February 1965 vol 706 cc1164-6
7. Mr. Buchanan-Smith

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland what representations he has had regarding the operation of the Protection of Animals (Anaesthetics) Act, 1964; and what reply he has sent.

Mr. Ross

Representations have been been made to my Department by the National Farmers' Union and other organisations representing hill sheep farmers in Scotland that the provisions in the Act governing the use of rubber rings should be amended by raising the age limit from one week to two months. The reply given in each case was that there was no prospect of introducing amending legislation.

Mr. Buchanan-Smith

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that veterinary opinion is by no means agreed that the rubber ring method of castration causes unnecessary suffering? Is he prepared to instruct the Department of Agriculture to advise hill farmers in Scotland on an alternative method?

Mr. Ross

The hon. Gentleman should appreciate that farming opinion was consulted before the Act was put on the Statute Book, that the advice was available of our own veterinary officers in the Scottish Department and those of various associations not only in Scotland but elsewhere in the United Kingdom, and that they were all agreed that the Act should be introduced. We also had surveillance at that time over the Department of Agriculture of a man who was not undistinguished in the sheep breeding field, and also of a distinguished farmer in Scotland. Therefore, I am surprised that these protests did not come when the Bill was going through the House. The Measure came into force only in August last year. I appreciate that there have been protests. We have already stated that if we get evidence of a substantial character that some change should be made we will look at it.

Mr. Noble

Does not the right hon. Gentleman know—I am certain that if he asks, his Department will tell him—that when the Act was agreed both the Scottish National Farmers' Union and the British Veterinary Association were to some extent confused about the evidence that they gave to the Scottish Office at the time. There has been a very considerable change since. This is a serious problem. It is right that the right hon. Gentleman should look at it again in the light of the fact that within a month or two these lambs will be born.

Mr. Ross

My hon. Friend the Member for West Stirlingshire (Mr. W. Baxter) has already been told that we are prepared to look at any evidence that might come forward in relation to this problem to prove that a wrong decision has been taken by the House. It should be remembered that it was this House which decided in favour of the Bill without any amendment. There was opportunity to make protests between the time the Measure came from another place and its consideration in this House, but none came, and the Bill was passed without amendment.

Mr. MacArthur

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that there is a real problem here? Throughout the whole of Scotland it is almost impossible for this part of the law to be observed and quite impossible for it to be enforced. Is there not a danger that the continuation of such legislation will lead to the law falling into disrepute generally?

Mr. Ross

the hon. Gentleman surprises me because he, too, was a member of the Government which allowed the Measure to go through.

Mr. W. Baxter

Would not my right hon. Friend agree that it would be wrong for him to put too much stress on the wisdom and knowledge of gentlemen farmers sitting on the Opposition benches? Would it not be better for him to pay a greater degree of attention to the practical farmers of Scotland, who find it very difficult to implement this part of the Act? Might I draw his attention to the simple fact that bringing the sheep in for the purpose of getting the lambs castrated at an early age does more damage to the unborn lambs in the sheep? Is not this an important subject, and ought not my right hon. Friend to give it very special consideration?

Mr. Ross

I noted this when my hon. Friend first stated it. I was here when he made the point. I can assure him that what further action we take will depend on the weight of evidence that backs up the protests which have been made and have been brought to my notice by hon. Members.