HC Deb 16 February 1965 vol 706 cc1005-7
Q3. Mr. Hastings

asked the Prime Minister what evidence he had, in formulating his policy on the subject, that sporting guns and ammunition had been used for internal security purposes in South Africa; and whether he will now lift the embargo on these weapons.

The Prime Minister

With regard to the first part of the Question, I would refer the hon. Member to the Answer I gave to the right hon. Gentleman the Member for Conway (Mr. Peter Thomas) on 23rd of December last. The answer to the second part of the Question is: No, Sir.

Mr. Hastings

Is the right hon. Gentleman not aware that when the South African Government asked the Foreign Secretary for the evidence on which this allegation was based, it was told that there was none and that this statement had slipped in by mistake? Would it not, therefore, be better for the Prime Minister now to admit this mistake and do away with the pinprick which is as irritating to manufacturers and craftsmen in this country as it is to sportsmen in South Africa?

The Prime Minister

That is not the account given to me by the then Foreign Secretary. Perhaps the hon. Gentleman has further information. If so, perhaps he will tell us where from.

Mr. James Johnson

Will my right hon. Friend accept the view that if it is dangerous for gangsters at home to use these guns against our own people it is more dangerous for gangsters overseas to use these guns against African people?

The Prime Minister

We stated our attitude on this matter in relation to fulfilment of the United Nations resolution, and we are abiding by it.

Mr. Peter Thomas

Is it not quite clear on the evidence that the Prime Minister has that sporting guns and ammunition have not been used for repressive purposes in South Africa, and is it not quite clear that the only possible meaning that could be attached to what the Prime Minister said on 17th November last was that they had been used? Will the Prime Minister now admit that what he said then was ill considered and misleading?

The Prime Minister

Certainly not. I dealt with this question on 23rd December, when I stated exactly what I had said and exactly what I had in mind. It it perfectly well known that weapons of this kind can be used, and in different countries have been used, for internal repression and have been used in South Africa, even against the Government.