HC Deb 15 February 1965 vol 706 cc840-2
36. Mr. Dodds

asked the Secretary of State for Defence how many social and welfare organisations in Kent have been notified that their licence to use a Territorial Army centre is cancelled from 31st January, 1965; under what conditions they will be able to use the accommodation after that date; what is the average percentage increase they will be required to pay to be able to do so; why the notice of this change was so short; and what inquiries were made to ascertain the effect this decision would have on the work being carried out by these organisations.

Mr. Reynolds

Eighteen licensees were notified of the withdrawal of their licences by 31st January, 1965. It is difficult to say how many of these should be classified as social and welfare organisations. The conditions under which they will be able to use the accommodation in future are for the Kent Territorial and Auxiliary Forces Association to decide, but I have no reason to think that they will differ from the previous conditions except that the rent will be increased. The Kent Territorial and Auxiliary Forces Association is willing to negotiate about the rent, so that I cannot say what the increase will be; I understand that the average charge up to now has been about 18s. About six weeks' notice of the change was given in all cases. No inquiries were made regarding the effect which the increase would have on the organisations concerned.

Following representations by my hon. Friend, the Association has already extended the original notice period from six weeks to ten weeks in which to complete negotiations for revised fees with existing hirers. If in any such case negotiations are not completed by 28th February, the Association has assured me that an extension of time can be given, provided negotiations are completed by 31st March, 1965.

Mr. Dodds

Is my hon. Friend aware that I am extremely grateful to his Department for its untiring efforts to undo the harm that has been done by the hamhanded way that the Kent T.A. handled the situation? Can he explain why at one swoop the Association suggested increasing the charges by 400 to 500 per cent.? Is he aware that many elderly people who have used this hall for years will not go back again, even if it were free, because they feel that they are not wanted? In view of the tremendous sums of money that have been put into the building of drill halls and into the T.A., is it not about time that a review was undertaken to see whether this money is being spent to advantage?

Mr. Reynolds

The management of these halls and the decision whether to let them is a matter for the local County Associations. In this case there was a substantial proposed increase in the charges to be made for hirings of this kind, the Association having had to revise and look into this matter because of new details coming to light about insurance. I can assure my hon. Friend that we intend to do everything we possibly can to try to get a satisfactory conclusion to the matter.

Mr. Murray

Is the Under-Secretary aware that this will cause a great deal of hardship not only to old-age pensioners associations? There are many asociations for young people to whom this will cause very great hardship indeed. Many of them use these halls to raise money for charitable purposes. Would not my hon. Friend consider looking at the matter again?

Mr. Reynolds

The associations have a duty under the Regulations to make a charge which covers the actual cost of letting halls of this nature. They had to look at the charges being made because of new information which came to light about insurance.

Mr. Deedes

Will the Under-Secretary have a very careful look at this matter? Is he aware that certainly in relation to the County of Kent this policy has made very little sense, particularly from the point of view of the Territorial Army, which counts tremendously on the good will of other organisations? A great deal of good will was forfeited by the way in which this policy was implemented.

Mr. Reynolds

One of the jobs of local County Associations is to try to retain the good will of the area in which they operate. I am sure that the Kent Association is fully aware of this. The matters are under negotiation now with the people who were previously licensees of these halls.

37. Mr. Dodds

asked the Secretary of State for Defence by whose authority the secretary of the Northumberland Heath branch of the National Federation of Old Age Pensioners and the leader of the Erith Darby and Joan Club were informed that the licence to use the accommodation in the Territorial Army Drill Hall, Erith, was to be cancelled from 31st January, 1965, and that after this date their weekly meetings could only take place at the drill hall on payment of 68s. per meeting instead of the present charge of 12s. 6d.; and if he will give the names of other organisations so notified.

Mr. Reynolds

The decision to increase rents for letting Territorial Army property and therefore to terminate existing licences was made by the Kent Territorial and Auxiliary Forces Association, acting within its own discretion. As the list of other organisations notified is lengthy, I will, with permission, circulate it in the OFFICIAL REPORT.

Following is the list: