HC Deb 01 February 1965 vol 705 cc709-10
24. Mr. Geoffrey Lloyd

asked the Minister of Pensions and National Insurance whether it is her intention to increase the standard rate of National Insurance benefits in line with the rise in average earnings of men in manufacturing industries.

Miss Herbison

We have already taken action to increase national insurance benefits substantially. The amount and timing of any further increases in benefits must depend, as we made plain in our election manifesto, on the rate of advance of the economy.

Dame Edith Pitt

But since the Command Paper issued in November in connection with the Bill said that the increase in benefits under the previous Administration had overtaken the increase in average earnings, will the right hon. Lady give an assurance that it is her policy to continue that progressive process?

Miss Herbison

I am afraid that the ton. Lady misunderstands what was said. This new increase, which will obtain after 29th March, will finally bring the pensions for old people ahead of the increase in earnings.

Dame Edith Pitt

The Command Paper specifically says that during the period under review, which was five years, "improvements in benefit rates had been overtaking the rise in earnings."

Hon. Members

Withdraw.

Miss Herbison

I have nothing to withdraw. When we make these comparisons, we have to go right back to 1948, when the new benefits began. Even with the 1963 increase, the improvement in pensions and benefits had not overtaken the increase in earnings.

Sir K. Joseph

The right hon. Lady is not being fair in answer to my hon. Friend. Over the right hon. Lady's own signature in the Report accompanying the Bill she acknowledges that under the previous Administration rises in pensions had overtaken rises in earnings. All that my hon. Friend is asking is whether it is the right hon. Lady's policy to continue that process.

Miss Herbison

First, I must make it clear that what I have said to the hon. Lady is correct when the comparison is with pensions in 1948. As regards the second part of the question, the increases which the old people will get at the end of March are the highest ever given to them since 1948, whether one compares them with the index of retail prices, or with the rise in earnings, which I prefer.