BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE

HC Deb 20 December 1965 vol 722 cc1825-8

The Lord President of the Council (Mr. Herbert Bowden)

With permission, Mr. Speaker, I should like to make a business statement.

With the business for Tuesday, the House will be invited to consider the Motion on the Southern Rhodesia (Petroleum) Order, 1965.

Mr. Edward Heath (Bexley)

As the right hon. Gentleman the Leader of the House is aware, since the business for this week was arranged, to which he has now made an addition, there has been the laying of the Order last Friday evening, after the House had risen, and the statement by the Prime Minister this afternoon. In the light of these, the Opposition has placed on the Order Paper this evening a Motion concerned with Rhodesia, which the Opposition would wish to discuss tomorrow instead of having the debate on the Adjournment.

Mr. Bowden

I am aware that since the business statement we made on Thursday an Order on Rhodesia has been laid for discussion tomorrow night. The right hon. Gentleman the Leader of the Opposition correctly informs the House that the Opposition has tonight tabled a Motion——

It being Ten o'clock, the Motion for the Adjournment of the House lapsed, without Question put.

Motion made, and Question proposed, That this House do now Adjourn.—[Mrs. Harriet Slater.]

Mr. Bowden

As I was saying, the Opposition have tabled a Motion on Rhodesia with a request that it should be debated tomorrow, and the Government have tabled an Amendment. There is nothing within the Motion or the Amendment which could not also be debated tomorrow equally well in the Adjournment debate on foreign affairs. My right hon. Friend the Prime Minister is making a statement tomorrow on his recent visit to the United States. This has been requested. A full debate will take place during the whole day, and anything contained within the Motion or the Amendment could be correctly debated, according to the Orders of the House.

May I say, also, that to alter the business of the House at this late stage and debate the Opposition Motion and the Government Amendment tomorrow would be quite unfair to the House, which had been promised a two-day foreign affairs debate. I could not agree to such a change at this late stage.

Mr. Heath

The Leader of the House has said that the Prime Minister is making a statement tomorrow on his visit to Washington. It would be quite normal for the Prime Minister to make a statement after a foreign visit—that has often happened—but although the matter may be in order on the Adjournment tomorrow it does not give the House an opportunity of having, as the Government have now tabled an Amendment, a Division on the Motion and the Amendment placed on the Order Paper. So the House is put in the unhappy position in which it will discuss matters in the Motion and the Amendment but cannot formally express its opinion on them.

Mr. Bowden

The Leader of the Opposition will be aware that a week ago he asked my right hon. Friend the Prime Minister to open the foreign affairs debate on his return from the United States—which it now appears he could have done because he came back to make his statement—but it should be clearly understood that anything that could be said can be equally well said tomorrow. If it is the desire of the Opposition to divide on the Motion we can certainly debate the Motion and the Amendment at a later stage, but I am sure that tomorrow we must continue with the foreign affairs debate. This can be done when we resume after the Recess.

Mr. Heath

I do not want to take up the time of the hon. Member who has the Adjournment debate—I do not know who he is—but the Leader of the House has been a little out of touch with reality if he thinks that the House can adjourn on Wednesday and not debate this important Motion and Amendment until it comes back at the end of January. So I must indicate to him that if he is not able to meet the general wishes of the Opposition in this matter in a two-day debate in which the Opposition have provided a day, we must find alternative means of expressing our views in the Lobby.

Mr. Bowden

I am sure that the right hon. Gentleman will take the opportunity of dividing the House tomorrow, perhaps on the Adjournment, at the end of this debate. That is rather different from dividing on Rhodesia, and he probably realises that.

Mr. Heath

No, what is quite clearly realised is that we can indicate precisely the reason why, if we seek to do so, we are going into the Division Lobby, which is always the case on the Adjournment.

Mr. Jeremy Thorpe (Devon, North)

I am sure that many hon. Members will welcome the opportunity to have a debate and to give formal acknowledgment and support—or, perhaps, opposition; I do not know—to the oil Order, but am I right in thinking that the Prime Minister originally intended to make a statement tomorrow which would cover many interesting aspects of foreign policy in which all hon. Members are acutely interested, not necessarily touching on Rhodesia—ߞ

Mr. Speaker

Order. I hope that the hon. Member will put his point briefly. We are using the time of the hon. Member for Essex, South-East (Mr. Braine).

Mr. Thorpe

Do we take it that we will now only have a statement from the Prime Minister on the result of his talks, and is there not some way in which we can not only debate the Rhodesian Orders but also have a speech from the Prime Minister?

Mr. Bowden

I see that I have not made myself clear. The Prime Minister will make his speech tomorrow on foreign affairs, and part of it will include Rhodesia. It will be quite in order for any hon. Member to say anything he wishes about Rhodesia or anything about the Amendment that the Government have tabled, or the Motion tabled by the Opposition tonight. The difficulty is that it is not in front of the House now, but when it is, in the morning, it will be seen clearly that that can be debated tomorrow. As for the oil Order, if the House so wishes it can divide against that tomorrow night after Ten o'clock, when it is taken.