HC Deb 02 December 1965 vol 721 cc1640-4

The following Questions stood upon the Order Paper:

Q12. Mr. WILL GRIFFITHS: To ask the Prime Minister, what reply he has sent to the President of Zambia's request for the stationing of British military forces in Zambia.

Q13. Mr. WILLIAM HAMILTON: To ask the Prime Minister, what plans have been made to send British troops to the protection of Zambia.

The Prime Minister (Mr. Harold Wilson)

With permission, I will now answer Questions No. 12 and 13 together.

I have just heard since I came into the Chamber from my right hon. Friend the Commonwealth Secretary that the Government of Zambia have asked the British Government to provide Royal Air Force planes for the defence of Zambia. The British Government have readily agreed to meet this request; discussions about ground troops are still continuing.

Mr. Griffiths

Could the Prime Minister say whether the differences which have occurred up to now have been about the scale of the forces to be supplied to Zambia or about their deployment or both?

The Prime Minister

This message came very quickly. I was on the phone to my right hon. Friend an hour ago: I must say that communications are still very difficult. The differences have been of a rather more general character. I indicated their nature yesterday. But I understand from my right hon. Friend that agreement has now been reached on all the terms and conditions relating to the stationing of the Royal Air Force planes and R.A.F. Regiment in Zambia. There is now nothing to stop the immediate entry of the planes into Zambia.

Mr. Hamilton

Can my right hon. Friend deny or confirm reports that the Egyptian Government are refusing flyover rights over Egyptian territory for our planes? Can he say whether any assurance was sought or given about the deployment of other foreign forces in Zambia?

The Prime Minister

On the question of the Egyptian fly-over rights, there have been difficulties. The reasons given for unwillingness on their part to make available what we hoped would have been the normal rights which we could have expected was one of the reasons which filled me and others with such anxiety about the developing situation in Zambia. With regard to the question of forces, I understand from my right hon. Friend that the conditions about the operations of the R.A.F. there—obviously, we must have adequate operational control—have been met. However, so far as ground forces are concerned, discussions are still proceeding with my right hon. Friend, advised, of course, by the Director of Military Operations from the Army Department of the Ministry of Defence.

Mr. Heath

Can the right hon. Gentleman outline as soon as possible, if he does not have the information now, the precise arrangements under which the Royal Air Force and the R.A.F. Regiment will be in Zambia?

The Prime Minister

Yes, Sir. I apologise to the right hon. Gentleman for the fact that it was not possible to give him information. I tried to get a message to him that, with luck, I hoped to make a statement at 3.30 p.m., but I did not get this information until 3.25 p.m. I should like, in any way convenient to the House, to give full particulars. Certainly, as soon as I get the text—it is probably available in some form—I will let the right hon. Gentleman have it and find some means of informing the House.

Mr. Molloy

In future and, I hope, in immediate communications with President Kaunda, would my right hon. Friend express to him the appreciation of the House for his, President Kaunda's, patience and great statesmanship?

The Prime Minister

I have reason to think that President Kaunda was aware of what was said by both sides of the House on this question yesterday. I have reason to think that he already knows, and I think that it would be right to draw to his attention that, whatever differences we have had this afternoon or at any other time about certain aspects of the Rhodesian situation, there has been full support given from both sides of the House for the need for British forces to be stationed in Zambia on the grounds that we have stated, following the request of the President.

Mr. Hastings

Is the Prime Minister not just as well aware as most of the rest of us that there is no air threat whatever to Zambia and no threat to the Kariba Dam? Why does he go on pretending in the House and on television that there is?

The Prime Minister

I am not sure whether the hon. Gentleman is speaking for himself here, because we have our own duties and responsibilities, or whether he is speaking with any inner knowledge of this matter. As long as there is any possibility or any fear of this happening, we have certain duties in this matter. We have carried out these duties, and we shall carry them out.

Mr. David Steel

While discussions are still going on, can the Prime Minister confirm that Her Majesty's Government have no objection in principle to the stationing of ground troops in Zambia? Secondly, bearing in mind his statement yesterday about not standing idly by in the event of interference with power supplies, can he continue to rebut any statement which may be made in this House or elsewhere which might embolden Mr. Smith and his régime to believe that they can carry out such action with impunity?

The Prime Minister

When the hon. Gentleman asks whether I can say that there is no objection in principle to the stationing of ground troops, I take it that he means British troops. Certainly there is no objection. The matter is being discussed at present by my right hon. Friend. We are perfectly willing to station ground troops provided satisfactory conditions obtain. As for the other matter, it is difficult to go into detail on how effect will be given to what I said yesterday. It would be extremely unfair for all concerned if I tried to do so, but I repeat what I said yesterday, and if necessary I will confirm his phrase about impunity.

Mr. Ennals

Is my right hon. Friend aware of the relief that will be felt throughout the country at the announcement that he has just made concerning the agreement reached between the two countries and the much more dangerous consequences which may have been averted by this agreement? Does he also agree that had it not been for the firm position he took yesterday such an agreement would not have been possible?

The Prime Minister

I think that the whole House agreed yesterday that we were facing—and I think it will agree that we are still facing—a very critical situation in Central Africa, and that we want to do everything in our power to stop this already explosive situation becoming still more explosive. I believe that the presence of the Royal Air Force will be an important factor in helping to cool down the situation. As to whether the things I said yesterday have helped to secure this agreement, that is a matter on which there can only be opinions and judgments, and nothing can be certain.

Sir P. Agnew

When the R.A.F. have arrived in Zambia, will they be put under the operational control of the Commander-in-Chief, Middle East, or under whose command will they be placed?

The Prime Minister

Referring to the Royal Air Force unit, a senior Royal Air Force officer is already there, in command of operations locally. The forces will be under the general control of the Commander-in-Chief, Middle East. The question of the command structure and control of the Army unit, if it goes out, is still being worked out, but it will be completely under British control.

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