HC Deb 28 April 1965 vol 711 cc421-3
4. Mr. Goodhew

asked the Minister of Transport what progress has been made towards the introduction of liner trains for the carriage of freight.

13. Mr. Peter Mills

asked the Minister of Transport what progress has been made towards the introduction of liner trains for the carriage of freight.

Mr. Tom Fraser

As the House knows, negotiations have been proceeding for many months between the Railways Board and the National Union of Railwaymen over the introduction of liner train services. Although it has not proved possible for them to reach agreement, I have now decided that, in order not to further delay this very promising new development, the Board must be free to go ahead on the basis that the liner train terminals will be open to all road hauliers. I have therefore authorised the Board to incur the necessary capital expenditure to start these services.

Mr. Goodhew

I am sure that the House will welcome the statement by the right hon. Gentleman, especially in view of the urgency of this matter since the British Railways deficit cost the taxpayer four times the saving on the TSR2. May I ask whether the right hon. Gentleman will give an assurance that private road hauliers will be allowed to operate in connection with these liner trains?

Mr. Fraser

What I have said is that I have given my approval to the Railways Board incurring the necessary capital expenditure to start the liner train services on the basis of free terminals. I cannot give an assurance about what will happen at the end of the day. No doubt the Railways Board and the unions will have further discussions on the new situation created by the statement of policy which I have just made.

Mr. Peter Mills

Will the Minister bear in mind that the failure to introduce these liner trains has hampered the economic progress of our country? Will he do everything in his power to see that they start to operate as quickly as possible? Will he also bear in mind that if we had liner trains, it would be a considerable help in solving the transport problems in the South-West, as this would ease the traffic on the roads?

Mr. Fraser

A great many of us have high hopes for the success of the liner trains, but they have yet to be proved. Up to now the Railways Board has not been able to incur very heavy capital expenditure. It will take a little while, even now, before the liner trains begin to operate. There will be a period of some months—perhaps six months—before the first of the services comes into operation. This is the estimate made by the Board. It has always been estimated that by the time the Board got an authorisation to go ahead with expenditure it would take six months to put the first services into operation.

Mr. Paget

Is my right hon. Friend aware that he is much to be congratulated on having had the courage to take this decision which his predecessor flanked?

Sir R. Thompson

Does the statement by the right hon. Gentleman mean that, while he will provide the necessary money to build the terminals to provide this service, he is not proposing to express any view on whether the terminals will be used as intended?

Mr. Fraser

The hon. Gentleman cannot have heard me. I said that I was giving my authority to incur the necessary capital expenditure on the basis of the terminals being opened to all road hauliers. I was not able to give an assurance to his hon. Friend that "Uncle Tom Cobley and all" would use them. It is not for me to decide.

Mr. Powell

Does that mean that if in the event it proves that the terminals are not so open, the Minister's consent will lapse?

Mr. Fraser

The right hon. Gentleman knows, if some of his hon. Friends do not, that my predecessor gave authority to the Railways Board for capital expenditure of up to£6 million to introduce the first 15 services, conditional on the Board first getting agreement with the railway unions that the terminals would be open, free to all road hauliers. For the past 12 months the Railways Board has had discussions with the railway unions and has not reached an agreement. What I have done is to withdraw the condition put on the Railways Board by my predecessor.