HC Deb 13 April 1965 vol 710 cc1142-5
13. Mr. Ridley

asked the Minister of Overseas Development if she will introduce legislation to amend the Pensions (Increase) Act, 1962, to provide that a pension supplement is payable to a former officer of Her Majesty's Overseas Service, who was born, or was resident at the time of his joining the Service, in an overseas territory, but ceases to be so resident upon his retirement.

Mr. Oram

No, Sir.

Mr. Ridley

I know that the Parliamentary Secretary has considered this matter carefully, but is he aware of any other legislation in which entitlement to a pension increase depends upon the accident of where one is born or where one happened to be at the time of entering the service? Will the hon. Gentleman give an assurance that in considering any future Pensions (increase) Bill, he will try to overcome the difficulty involved in this case, because there is clearly an injustice in the legislation?

Mr. Oram

I have been in correspondence with the hon. Member and I know of the case that he has in mind. The Act which increases the pensions draws a distinction, however, between overseas and local officers, and the case that the hon. Member has in mind is distinctly one of a local officer. I see no prospect that we can answer the hon. Member's case that the legislation should be amended.

Dame Irene Ward

Does the Minister's reply mean that no Acts will be altered by Her Majesty's Government? In view of all the pledges which they have given all round the place that they will deal with a good many people so much more generously than did the Tory Government, does the Minister intend to alter no Act, however wide the gap may be?

Mr. Speaker

The Minister could not do it arising out of the Answer, which was confined to a particular point.

Dame Irene Ward

On a point of order. Is it not in order, Mr. Speaker, to ask the Minister whether he will not alter an Act?

Mr. Speaker

Yes, very much so if the question arises out of the Answer. The difficulty here was that the hon. Lady's question went floating round a wider range.

Dame Irene Ward

Jolly good.

17. Sir J. Fletcher-Cooke

asked the Minister of Overseas Development how many overseas service pensioners in the United Kingdom fail to qualify for relief under the Double Taxation Agreement in respect of tax deducted from their pensions by the Government of Ghana.

Mr. Oram

I regret that this information is not available but I understand that the great majority of Ghana pensioners in this country pay Ghana tax at the effective United Kingdom rate and thus qualify for full relief in respect of tax paid to Ghana.

19. Mr. Woodnutt

asked the Minister of Overseas Development what is the average period which elapses between the death of a colonial service pensioner who served in Ceylon and the payment of a pension to his widow.

Mr. Oram

Delays have averaged five to six months but the Ceylon Government have now authorised the Crown Agents, as soon as a contributor's death is notified, to pay the widow a provisional pension of three-quarters of the registered pension pending a final calculation.

Mr. Woodnutt

I thank the hon. Gentleman for that reply. I am sure that it will please all ex-colonial civil servants, but does not the hon. Gentleman agree that, as we constantly have these problems of one sort or another, it would be far better if Her Majesty's Government assumed responsibility for paying these pensions and reclaiming them from the Governments concerned?

Mr. Oram

This matter was quite recently discussed during an Adjournment debate in the House, in which I stated the Government's position. We have discussed it with the Association of the officers concerned, and I am afraid that we cannot accept the hon. Gentleman's suggestion.

Dame Irene Ward

A bad decision.

20. Mr. Woodnutt

asked the Minister of Overseas Development why an ex-colonial civil servant who served in the territory formerly known as Nyasaland, is eligible for a supplement under the Pensions (Increase) Act if he retired to Tanganyika but is not eligible if he retired to Nyasaland.

Mr. Oram

With one exception the Act does not provide for the payment of supplements to pensioners who live after retirement in the country in which they served since local pensioners are not within its scope.

Mr. Woodnutt

Does not the hon. Gentleman think that this is extremely unfair? All these colonial servants served under the same conditions of service, and they are all British subjects. Should not they all be treated in the same way? The hon. Gentleman says that the Government cannot take over these pensions, and that he has discussed this matter with the Overseas Pensioners' Association, but he did not say that that association wishes the Government to take them over.

Mr. Oram

I thought that that was well known, as the House has discussed this matter on several occasions. The distinction is between the country where the officer served, and other countries. Although it meant creating some anomalies by drawing the line where it was drawn—and I remind the hon. Gentleman that it was drawn there by the previous Government—

Dame Irene Ward

Alter it.

Mr. Oram

—it is not possible to draw the line at any other point without raising much worse anomalies than those which appear to exist under this system.

Mr. Ridley

In view of the deep disquiet felt on both sides of the House about the fairness of some of these arrangements, will the hon. Gentleman institute a thoroughgoing review of the whole system of the payment of these ex-colonial pensions to see whether he can improve on the standards that were laid down in the last Act?

Mr. Oram

I assure the hon. Gentleman that in relation to many individual cases, and in relation to the whole question of pensions for overseas officers, the matter has been thoroughly considered by the Government, and we believe that no change is appropriate.

Mr. Michael Foot

Henceforth, will my hon. Friend act on what might be a wiser assumption, that anything decided by the previous Government was harsh, senseless and utterly outrageous?