HC Deb 11 May 1964 vol 695 cc7-10
8. Mr. Rankin

asked the Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food how many factory farms he has visited; if he is satisfied with the conditions under which animals are reared in them for table use; and if the food produced by these methods has the nutritional value of that grown in the normal way.

14. Mr. Brockway

asked the Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food if he will recommend the appointment of a Royal Commission to inquire into cruelty to birds and animals resulting from intensive methods of animal farming, and to report on the nutritive value of food produced under these conditions.

Mr. Soames

I have visited a number of farms where intensive systems of husbandry were practised. In the reply I gave to my hon. Friend the Member for Gillingham (Mr. Burden) on 20th April, I announced the setting up of a Technical Committee, which is more appropriate than a Royal Commission to this type of inquiry. Such work as has been done in this country has revealed no evidence to suggest that intensive methods of rearing reduce the nutritional value of the product.

Mr. Rankin

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that there is a growing feeling in the country that factory farming aborts the God-given process of photosynthesis by supplying animals with drugs which fatten them and at the same time could render man less responsive to those drugs in his hour of need? The right hon. Gentleman is doing this in order to produce low quality meat and big profits.

Mr. Soames

I know that the hon. Gentleman holds this view. All I can say is that the researches which have been carried out hitherto do not lend support to what he has said.

Mr. Brockway

Will the terms of reference of the right hon. Gentleman's Committee include the allegations of cruelty to animals which are made in Ruth Harrison's book, "Animal Machines", and will he very carefully consider whether callousness towards animal cruelty may not lead to indifference towards human cruelty?

Mr. Soames

The object of the Committee will be to advise me whether certain standards for animal husbandry should be laid down. The terms of reference are very wide. This is not a question of taking allegations of any particular type of cruelty by any particular person; the Committee's job will be to advise me in the broadest sense as to whether it is necessary to lay down standards of animal husbandry for intensive livestock production.

Mr. Bullard

I recognise that there may be dangers and cruelty involved in keeping animals in too close quarters, but will my right hon. Friend discourage the use of the term "factory farm", because, so far as I know, there is no definition of it and often an animal kept in a small, warm, well-bedded quarters can be a lot more healthy and health-giving than one kept out on an open moor?

Mr. Soames

I have absolutely no doubt at all that the systems under which our animals are kept are such that the animals can thrive, and they would not thrive if they were suffering. If they did not thrive, there would be no profitability in the operation. On the other hand, in view of the rapid growth, not of factory farming—I agree with my hon. Friend that we do not quite know what the interpretation given to the term "factory farming" by the hon. Member for Glasgow, Govan (Mr. Rankin) would be—but of intensive livestock production covering a broad field, I think that it is time to consider whether it is necessary to lay down standards.

Mr. Peart

In view of the importance of this matter, will the Minister say when the Technical Committee will submit its report to him and when the House will be informed of its findings?

Mr. Soames

No, I cannot do that at this moment. I hope to announce very shortly the names of the members of the Committee.

Mr. Rankin

Although I recognise and welcome the fact that the right hon. Gentleman is taking very short steps towards the point of view that I enunciated, may I ask him if he realises that the Technical Committee is quite insufficient in this case, because there is the human aspect, which might be obscured in these investigations? Would the right hon. Gentleman consider widening the Committee a little to incorporate in its membership members of the community, and Members of the House if necessary, who are interested in this problem?

Mr. Soames

When I announce the membership of the Committee, I believe that the House will feel that it is a sensible membership.

9. Mr. Rankin

asked the Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food if he will take the steps necessary to ensure that food produced at factory farms is so designated when exposed for sale in shops.

Mr. Soames

No, Sir.

Mr. Rankin

I am sorry that the right hon. Gentleman is now going backwards. Does not he remember the time when shop windows contained such notices as "Scotch fed" and "prime cuts"? We designated food because we were proud of its origin. Is the refusal to designate food from factory farms due to the fact that we do not like the public to know the origin of this type of food?

Mr. Soames

No. First, I think that the hon. Gentleman would find it very difficult to write an interpretation from a legislative point of view of what a factory farm is. Secondly and more importantly, the studies and research which have been done so far do not lead us to believe that there is any difference in the nutritive value of the food produced under different systems which would warrant us bringing in the very complicated arrangements for which the hon. Gentleman asks.

Mrs. Butler

But surely people have a right to know what they are buying and eating. Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that there is a growing consumer demand for this type of designation? Will he look at the matter again, study the problems involved and report back to the House?

Mr. Soames

No, Sir. I must tell the hon. Lady that from the studies which have already taken place there is no evidence to show the difference between the nutritive values of food produced under different conditions which would warrant such a proposition.