HC Deb 11 May 1964 vol 695 cc96-8

Lords Amendment: In page 3, line 32, leave out in such manner as may be so specified".

Vice-Admiral Hughes Hallett

I beg to move, That this House doth agree with the Lords in the said Amendment.

This is another new Amendment which takes away my right hon. Friend's power to specify, when making a direction to the Council, in what manner training should be carried out. It was argued in another place that it is unnecessary to empower the Minister to give directions upon a matter of detail which persons undertaking training would be better qualified to judge. We accept that there is some force in that argument. We believe that relations with the Council will be so close that no serious differences of opinion are likely to arise on this particular point and I therefore commend the Amendment to the House.

Mr. James H. Hoy (Edinburgh, Leith)

This is an Amendment we should also like to support, because, after all, the Clause does make provision that when schemes are being drawn up they will be drawn up in consultation with the Minister. It would really be too much if, after consultation and agreement, the Minister could then have the right to specify. Inasmuch as there is general agreement which has been reached and the Minister cannot go back on it, we think that the Amendment improves the Clause.

Question put and agreed to.

Subsequent Lords Amendment agreed to.

Lords Amendment: In page 4, line 15, at end insert: (5) The Council may make, in or towards satisfaction of expenses incurred by them in promoting research into any matter at the instance or with the consent of any person or body, charges of such amounts as may be agreed between them and that person or body.

Vice-Admiral Hughes Hallett

I beg to move, That this House doth agree with the Lords in the said Amendment.

This, again, is a new Amendment. It enables the Council to charge persons, only with those persons' agreement, for research which is promoted by the Council. It arose from the suggestion made in another place for widening the Council's power for research, and this power, in our judgment, is a useful and reasonable one. It would enable the Council to make charges in respect of research as it may in respect of education and training—that is to say, on behalf of any authority or special interest which wants research itself, and is prepared to pay for it in whole or in part.

Question put and agreed to.

Lords Amendment: In page 4, line 21, leave out from "person" to end of line 23 and insert: in respect of his receiving any such training or education".

Vice-Admiral Hughes Hallett

I beg to move, That this House doth agree with the Lords in the said Amendment.

This Amendment, which is in response to an undertaking which was given in this House on Report, clarifies the wording of Clause 3(5) so as to ensure that it clearly precludes the Council from charging workers in the industry for training and education which the Council promotes under the Clause. The new wording makes it clear beyond all doubt that individual workers will not be charged for training and education.

Mr. Mellish

Out of courtesy I should like to thank the Minister for complying with the undertaking that he gave. It is very satisfactory. It is satisfactory that workers in the industry should not be charged.

Question put and agreed to.

Subsequent Lords Amendment agreed to.