HC Deb 05 May 1964 vol 694 cc1101-4
28. Mr. Pavitt

asked the Chancellor of the Exchequer what is the amount of the Arts Council grant allocated to the London Opera Centre to date; and what percentage of grant is used to provide teaching.

Mr. Maurice Macmillan

The Arts Council has provided £24,000 for the Centre up to 31st March, 1964, and has allocated a further £31,500 in 1964–65. The sole purpose of the Centre is to provide teaching.

Mr. Pavitt

Does not the hon. Gentleman think that this is a completely disproportionate allocation of money as between the upkeep of a building and the teaching carried on there? Is he aware that there is at present confusion and chaos in the Centre, where the two principal directors, Joan Cross and Anne Wood, have been summarily dismissed? Will he use his influence so that more is spent on teaching, which will represent a policy which will give opera lovers the kind of school that they deserve?

Mr. Macmillan

About half the Centre's grant goes on account of maintenance, about 27 per cent. on teaching salaries and the rest on administration, including the warden's salary. I deeply regret, as I am sure we all do, the personal difficulties it involves, but the Arts Council is the arbiter of where the moneys provided by the Treasury for it should go and the detail of how they should be spent.

Mr. K. Robinson

Is the hon. Gentleman aware that there is a good deal of public anxiety about recent events involving the Centre? It appears that, following the expenditure of a considerable amount of public money, all that has happened is that we have lost an opera school which was functioning well, if on a small scale, and gained a white elephant of a building and not much else. While I do not suggest that the hon. Gentleman should intervene directly, can he perhaps persuade the Arts Council to conduct an objective inquiry into the whole affair and so see whether we can rescue something from the wreckage?

Mr. Macmillan

The building and maintenance costs are shared between the London Opera Centre and the Royal Opera, Covent Garden. As to future policy, the school has been going only two terms and there have been difficulties, and I think it would be wise to wait to allow the teething troubles to be overcome.

29. Mr. Pavitt

asked the Chancellor of the Exchequer what was the original cost of buying the Troxy Cinema for the Arts Council to house the London Opera Centre; and what is the amount spent to date in alterations, repairs and general upkeep of the building.

Mr. Maurice Macmillan

The Troxy Cinema has not been bought, but is held on lease. About £120,000 has been spent on the building to date.

Mr. Pavitt

Is the hon. Gentleman aware of the extreme difficulty of hon. Members in trying to affect the policy of the Arts Council in that their only avenue is through his Department? In view of the concern which he has already expressed, will he look again at the whole arrangement whereby this white elephant was leased and the arrangements by which it will be retained with a view to having the opera school not linked to a national opera house but rather as one which will give service to opera over the whole country?

Mr. Macmillan

The hon. Gentleman's supplementary question raises the difficulty of trying to get arts matters out of direct political control and handled as far as the artistic and technical side of an opera school are concerned through a council; and it makes differences of this sort a little harder to deal with. But the hon. Gentleman can rest assured that the Treasury is just as concerned as anyone else to ensure that public money is spent as wisely as possible.

Mr. Jeger

Is the hon. Gentleman aware that none of the political parties could have made such a mess of the operatic world as has been made by the Arts Council? Will he not accede to my hon. Friend's request and ask the Arts Council to set up a special committee of inquiry to go into the whole question of opera and opera schools and training in this country?

Mr. Macmillan

I do not think I should under take to put any political or other pressure on the Arts Council in this direct way. Naturally, the Treasury is concerned that moneys provided by the taxpayer for the arts through the Arts Council should be spent as wisely as possible. As I have explained, I can assure the hon. Member that the Department is interesting itself in this and similar matters.

Dame Irene Ward

While accepting the view that the arts should be taken out of the political arena, may I ask my hon. Friend whether he is aware that what we want is that it shall be under just administration? Is it just that people of integrity like Joan Cross and Anne Wood should be sacked by Sir David Webster for saying that the Arts Council or the Covent Garden Opera School had issued a false prospectus? Is my hon. Friend not interested in justice and in seeing that the taxpayer pays for just administration and not for "phony" administration by the Establishment?

Mr. Macmillan

I am sure that my hon. Friend has a wide and deep personal experience of the sort of personal difficulties that arise in artistic matters and I do not think that it would be pro- per for me to comment on the personal aspect that she raises.

33. Dame Irene Ward

asked the Chancellor of the Exchequer if he will make a statement on the Covent Garden Opera School; and, in view of the inaccuracy of the prospectus issued by the school, if he will diminish the grant to be made in future to the Royal Opera House.

Mr. Maurice Macmillan

The administration of the London Opera Centre is a matter for the Board of the Centre, in which the Arts Council has confidence. I see no reason to diminish the Exchequer grant to the Royal Opera House, Covent Garden, which in any case does not provide the funds for the London Opera Centre.

Dame Irene Ward

Is it not a fact that, although the Arts Council may have confidence in the Opera School and Sir David Webster, a great many people have no confidence in either? Since my right hon. Friend the Prime Minister has announced that justice is the basis of the Conservative philosophy, will my hon. Friend explain now why two women of high integrity, both highly respected among musicians and lovers of music, should resign and then be sacked by Sir David Webster? Is my hon. Friend further aware that a great many people do not think that the Opera Company and the Arts Council are run by justice but by people who are not just?

Mr. Macmillan

I see no reason to change the answers I have given so far. My hon. Friend knows that the present trouble arises from a clash of personalities between the two ladies to whom she referred and the administration of the new school. Although my hon. Friend may be willing to adjudicate on this issue, I am not prepared to make any statement now as to the rights and wrongs of the dispute.

Mr. Channon

While dissociating myself from the suggestion that the subsidy to the Royal Opera House should be reduced, so that we are able to judge whether the large sums of public money spent on the school have been wisely spent, may I ask my hon. Friend the Economic Secretary how many pupils have been taught in these two terms?

Mr. Macmillan

I cannot answer that without notice.