§ 9. Mr. Lawsonasked the Minister of Labour what proportions of the Great Britain total of males under 20 years and wholly unemployed for more than 52 weeks were in Scotland and the Midlands, respectively, on the date of the most recent count.
§ Mr. GodberOn 13th January, 32.9 per cent. of the Great Britain total were in Scotland and 4.1 per cent. were in the Midlands region.
§ Mr. LawsonWill the Minister bear in mind that this is long-term chronic unemployment relating to young men who ought not to be out of work at all? Does he not agree that the contrast between these two parts of the country is really staggering and indicates that the measures that the Government have stated they are following are apparently having no effective results whatsoever?
§ Mr. GodberI would not say that they are having no effective results. I agree with the hon. Gentleman that anybody who is unemployed for a long period is a cause of grave concern. I also agree that the high percentage in Scotland is very regrettable indeed. We are' trying, in ways of which the hon. Gentleman is well aware, to make progress here. I hope that the more encouraging picture of unemployment generally will help us to reduce these numbers substantially during this year.
§ 11. Mr. Rossasked the Minister of Labour what was the ratio of wholly unemployed boys to notified unfilled vacancies for boys at the latest available date in Scotland and the Midlands, respectively.
§ 10. Mr. Millanasked the Minister of Labour what was the ratio of wholly 968 unemployed girls to notified unfilled vacancies in Scotland and the Midlands, respectively, at the latest available date.
§ Mr. GodberIn February, for every 100 wholly unemployed girls there were 75 unfilled vacancies in Scotland and 1,406 in the Midlands region. For every 100 wholly unemployed boys, there were 24 vacancies in Scotland and 694 in the Midlands region.
§ Mr. RossIs the Minister aware that these figures continue to be disquieting? In relation to the figures he gave me on 27th January, they show that there has been very little change in the number of unfilled vacancies in Scotland, whereas in the Midlands there has been at least a 50 per cent. increase in job opportunities? Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that a whole parade of Ministers of Labour and Chancellors of the Exchequer have told us that they would not rest until there was parity of job opportunity? Can the Minister give us a date when the Government will achieve this state of being able to rest?
§ Mr. GodberNo, I do not think that I can give the date which the lion. Gentleman wishes. In these comparisons, of course, it is true that the Midlands region, in particular, is showing a much better position. In the most recent figures, it is relevant to bear in mind that over Christmas, and again at the end of January, there were very substantial numbers of youngsters coming from school on to the employment market in Scotland. In fact, there were over 14,000 at Chrismas and 3,000 at the end of January, whereas in the Midlands region for that period there were only 2,000. It is only fair to make this point
§ Mr. RossWe appreciate these points, but we ask the Minister to appreciate equally that we have thousands of boys and girls who have been without jobs. Many of those who will get jobs when they leave school will find in two years' time that they are paid off so that the employers can take on labour coming from school.
§ Mr. GodberI accept that there may be a degree of this. For that reason, we are seeking all the time to get as great a percentage of them into apprenticeship as we can.
§ 14. Mr. Hannanasked the Minister of Labour what was the increase in the number of males in employment in Scotland and the rest of Great Britain, respectively, from mid-1951 to the latest available date.
§ 12. Mr. J. Robertsonasked the Minister of Labour what was the increase in the number of women in employment in Scotland and the rest of Great Britain, respectively, from mid-1951 to the latest available date.
§ Mr. GodberA comparison of the estimated figures for 1951 and 1963 shows that the number of women in employment increased by 44,000 in Scotland and 849,000 in the rest of Great Britain. A similar comparison for males in employment shows a decrease of 33,000 in Scotland and an increase of 963,000 in the rest of Great Britain.
§ Mr. HannanIs it not fantastic that these figures should exist? Are they not evidence of a very serious position, more serious than most people realise? What is the Prime Minister doing to fulfil the recent promises which have been made about the improvements that are to come to Scotland?
§ Mr. GodberThese figures bear out the position which has been shown in a number of Questions there have been in recent weeks on this subject. It is a position about which all Ministers have expressed their concern. The hon. Gentleman will be aware that the real problem is the basic problem of certain declining industries in Scotland, just as in certain areas of England, too. What we are seeking to do is to combat that. I think that the proposals, including the White Paper issued last autumn, go a very considerable way towards trying to help in this field.
§ Miss HerbisonSurely the Minister is aware that we have been faced with these declining industries for many years and that we on this side of the House and the people in Scotland are tired of getting the excuse trotted out time after time that our position is due to declining industries? What have the Government been doing in the last twelve years to find jobs to take the place of those that we lose through declining industries? That is the problem which the Government have to solve.
§ Mr. GodberYes. This is what the Government are seeking to do at present. Indeed, we have given assistance amounting to over £50 million under the Local Employment Act and, as announced in the White Paper last autumn, public service investment in Scotland is to be increased during the first two years of the plan from £100 million to £140 million. So we are trying to do what we can.
§ 15. Mr. G. M. Thomsonasked the Minister of Labour what was the increase in the number of boys in employment in Scotland and in the rest of Great Britain, respectively, between mid-1951 and the latest available date.
§ 13. Mr. J. Bennettasked the Minister of Labour what was the increase in the number of girls in employment in Scotland and the rest of Great Britain, respectively, from mid-1951 to the latest available date.
§ Mr. GodberBetween mid-1951 and mid-1963 the number of girls in employment increased by 4,400 in Scotland and 140,400 in the rest of Great Britain. The number of boys decreased by 600 in Scotland and increased by 111,900 in the rest of Great Britain.
§ Mr. ThomsonAre not these figures, particularly for boys, disgraceful, and do they not, together with the other figures which the Minister has been giving this afternoon, illustrate the intolerable degree of economic injustice that is taking place between one part of the United Kingdom and another? When will the Government do something drastic about this?
§ Mr. GodberI have been endeavouring to point out in reply to other Questions the steps that the Government are taking in seeking to establish new employment and by the provision of advance factories. These and other steps are helping to provide a number of new types of industry. When these are established, I hope they will grow.
§ Mr. LawsonIs the right hon. Gentleman aware that each of his predecessors in the past 10 years has been confronted with similar figures, although not nearly so bad, and that each has given virtually the same answer? Despite their giving the same answer, is the right hon. 971 Gentleman aware that the trend continues and appears to be worsening? Is it not obvious that we know the cause of the trouble and that the only way to solve it is for the Government to take action so that we in Scotland may get rid of the constant draining away of our young people to the South?
§ Mr. GodberAs I have pointed out, we have new proposals, as well as those referred to in the White Paper of last autumn, and we are endeavouring to solve this problem. We are also trying to develop advance factories which, in their turn, will be of help.
§ 29. Mr. Hannanasked the Minister of Labour what percentage of boys leaving school in Scotland entered apprenticeships in each of the last five years.
§ Mr. GodberThey were 32.1 in 1959, 33.3 in 1960, 38.2 in 1961, 38.9 in 1962 and 37.9 in 1963.
§ Mr. HannanIs the Minister aware that, though these figures are comparable with those in England and Wales, they still show a great need for an increase in the training for skills for our young people for the future? In view of the Newsom Report and other reports on training for skills, is the Minister satisfied with what is being done north of the Border to provide such training for our young people?
§ Mr. GodberIn this sphere the figures for Scotland are more satisfactory than those in the rest of the country—the percentage of apprenticeships is somewhat higher there, I am glad to say. In relation to training for young people in general, I attach great importance to the Industrial Training Act, which got the Royal Assent last week. Once established the Act will enable us to give a much better start to young people both in apprenticeships and other types of youth training.
§ 31. Mr. W. Hamiltonasked the Minister of Labour how many jobs have been lost in Scotland in the last four years; how many have been provided in the same period; and when it is expected that the level of unemployment will be comparable to that of the rest of the United Kingdom.
§ Mr. GodberAs my hon. Friend informed the hon. Gentleman in his 972 reply to his Question on 17th February, the only reliable and comprehensive figures of jobs lost and gained are those derived from changes in the numbers of employees in employment, which show an increase in Scotland of 21,700 between mid-1959 and mid-1963. I cannot forecast the level of unemployment at any particular time.
§ Mr. HamiltonWould the Minister agree that the figures show a net gain of about 5,000 new jobs per year, which is not anywhere near to the figure shown by the Government in their own White Paper on Central Scotland? In that White Paper a whole lot of assumptions are made on emigration and bringing down the rate of unemployment in Scotland nearer to the national average. Is not the right hon. Gentleman aware that the Government themselves estimate that a net gain of at least 10,000 new jobs a year is needed for the ten years between 1961 and 1972, and a net gain of 14,000 per year between 1971 and 1981? What additional measures do the Government intend to take to get anywhere near the figures they themselves produced?
§ Mr. GodberI have indicated in earlier replies today some of the things that the Government are doing, or are proposing to do in the future, in Scotland. In particular, I attach considerable importance to the advance factories, which are getting under way. Considerably more are being introduced now, and I hope that they will have a good effect. In addition, there is the good underlying trend of employment over the country as a whole, including Scotland, which is much healthier than it was some time ago.
§ Dame Irene WardWill my right hon. Friend consider as part of his Departmental responsibility issuing a comprehensive statement on what has been achieved in employment in the areas that have special Government attention? Would it not be a very good idea for his Department to show what tremendous progress we have made on the North-East Coast?
§ Mr. GodberI am very grateful to my hon. Friend for that comment and I should certainly like to look at what she has suggested. I am sure that there 973 is a very good picture to show generally, when considered against the problem involved.
§ Dr. BrayWill the right hon. Gentleman reconsider his statement that he cannot make a forecast of levels of unemployment, both because it rather makes nonsense about what has been said about making these forecasts and because the level of unemployment is an extremely important factor for the Chancellor of the Exchequer to consider in the regulation of the economy? How can the right hon. Gentleman control the economy if the Minister of Labour does not know what the level of labour will be?
§ Mr. GodberI do get in touch with my right hon. Friend the Chancellor of the Exchequer from time to time, but I do not propose to try to establish his targets. What matters is getting people into jobs and not trying to arouse any hopes that one may not be able to fulfil. Much the more important thing is to create the jobs, and that is what we are seeking to do.
§ Mr. HamiltonIs the right hon. Gentleman aware that he has mentioned several times this afternoon the prospects of advance factories? Does he not recollect that at least for 10 years the present Government have been opposed to advance factories, and that it is only the imminence of a General Election which has converted them?
§ Mr. GodberNo, I cannot accept that suggestion. In fact, these advance factories have been planned and have been going ahead for some considerable time.
§ 32. Mr. W. Hamiltonasked the Minister of Labour if he is aware that the number of boys and girls under 18 years who were unemployed in Scotland for more than eight weeks has increased more than three-fold in the last 12 years, and that this was a greater increase than in any other region; and, in view of this widening difference between Scotland and the rest of the country, what special measures he intends to take to deal with the problem.
§ Mr. GodberI am greatly concerned about this problem. The Government are taking special measures to raise the general level of employment in Scot- 974 land. I am convinced that this is the best way of dealing with the problem of unemployment among young people.
§ Mr. HamiltonIs the right hon. Gentleman aware that the young people who are currently unemployed in Scotland will be very gratified that he is concerned about the situation?