Secretary of State (Talks) (Hansard, 12 March 1964)

§ 2. Mr. Hastings
asked the Secretary of State for Commonwealth Relations what has been the result of the consultations on security he has had with Kenya, Uganda and Tanganyika; and to what extent it is Her Majesty's Government's policy to seek defence agreements with those Governments.

§ 9. Mr. Bottomley
asked the Secretary of State for Commonwealth Relations if he will make a statement on his visit to East African Commonwealth countries.

§ 10. Mr. Wall
asked the Secretary of State for Commonwealth Relations if he will make a statement on his visit to East Africa.

§ The Secretary of State for Commonwealth Relations and for the Colonies (Mr. Duncan Sandys)
The conclusions reached in my recent talks with the Governments of Uganda, Kenya and Tanganyika were published in joint statements, which I will circulate in HANSARD.

§ Mr. Hastings
Would not my right hon. Friend agree that a comprehensive defence agreement designed to safeguard the legitimate interests of these territories might go far to help create an East African Federation and to give some solid basis to the Commonwealth link in these areas? Would he not further agree that the principle could be widely applied in the Commonwealth on a formal rather than an informal or ad hoc basis?

§ Mr. Sandys
I am quite sure that there was no desire among these Governments to have what my hon. Friend describes as a comprehensive arrangement. On the other hand, I am reasonably satisfied with the arrangements which we were able to make, particularly with regard to Kenya.

§ Mr. Bottomley
Does the Secretary of State really think that his journey was necessary? Can he say what more could have been done by him than could have been done through normal diplomatic channels? Bearing in mind that the Commonwealth Prime Ministers are hesitating to come to London, would he not have done better to go round the Commonwealth and try to get co-operation on East Africa and other Commonwealth problems confronting the Government at the moment?

§ Mr. Sandys
I do not quite understand the right hon. Gentleman's remarks. I was, of course, going to Commonwealth countries. I visited four Commonwealth countries. It is the first time that I have heard a Commonwealth Secretary reproached for making visits to Commonwealth countries. It seemed to me that my journey was necessary. It was necessary because this was a moment—rather a difficult 635 moment—in our relations with these three countries to which we have had to send troops recently in rather exceptional circumstances; and it was also a moment at which it was necessary to open important negotiations both on defence and on financial matters with the Government of Kenya, negotiations which had been held over until after independence.

§ Mr. Wall
Will my right hon. Friend say what financial commitments we have entered into as far as Kenya is concerned and whether they are mainly military or mainly to assist in land resettlement and farm development?

§ Mr. Sandys
No absolutely firm financial commitments were entered into during my tour, but I did agree in principle to certain arrangements in the defence field. The main financial talks, on matters outside the sphere of defence, will be beginning at the official level in about 10 days' time.

§ Mr. Bottomley
Does not the Secretary of State agree that what is wanted now is assistance from Commonwealth countries which are not facing immediate difficulties? Why cannot the right hon. Gentleman now go round to Commonwealth countries who could be encouraged to give this help? What has been done in East Africa could have been done through normal diplomatic channels. [An HON. MEMBER: "Nonsense."]

§ Mr. Sandys
I do not know what the right hon. Gentleman is asking me to do. [An HON. MEMBER: "He does not know himself."] What sort of help is he suggesting that other Commonwealth countries should give to East Africa? If he will explain, I will try to give him the Government's viewpoint.

§ Mr. Bottomley
When it was a question of the United Kingdom entering the Common Market, the Secretary of State did not hesitate; he went to other Commonwealth countries for discussion. The issues now facing Her Majesty's Government with six Commonwealth countries in difficulties are such that the fullest Commonwealth co-operation and assistance are required, and it would be worth the right hon. Gentleman's making a trip to try to get them to assist.

§ Mr. Sandys
I am surprised that I am criticised for not travelling enough. I am hardly ever in this country.

§ Mr. Bottomley
This was the wrong journey.

§ Mr. Sandys
The right hon. Member is concerned primarily, in his Question, with East Africa. I went to the East African countries. It seemed to me very reasonable.